Chinese MALE, HALE (and rotary, small, suicide) UAV/UCAV thread

[tphuang]

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I didn't get a full sense of CH-9 size until reading this post

这可是能挂高超音速导弹的那款无人机啊（图2），翼展25米，最大起飞重量预计7-10吨（差不多相当于两架MQ-9），最大挂载超过2吨、最大航程10000公里，空军装备的那个“新型察打一体无人机”就是彩虹-9的自用版本（图4、5）

so it seems like the large long range UCAV is between this and WL-3.

It looks like this one won out. I wonder if we will still see WL-3 in this show. But it could very well be the case that this has won the competition.

I remember having a discussion on WL-3 with @Blitzo and @latenlazy on WL-3 back in 2022 when it got displayed. Even then, it seemed to be a huge deal when this thing can go into service.

But if they can get 100 of this into service, they have something that can terrorize Guam and Australia (if they can provide protection that far or if they can get close to within 500 km range without facing air defense after initial strike).

Fire power just got a lot more impressive.

It is so important for them to get a long range/endurance fighter jet to protect these assets.

 

[SlothmanAllen]

CH-7
View attachment 138765

Very much reminds me of those Aviation Week renders of the RQ-180 from years ago.

They are actually quite similar!

 

[vincent]

Very much reminds me of those Aviation Week renders of the RQ-180 from years ago.

They are actually quite similar!

Form follows function

 

[vincent]

But if they can get 100 of this into service, they have something that can terrorize Guam and Australia (if they can provide protection that far or if they can get close to within 500 km range without facing air defense after initial strike).

Fire power just got a lot more impressive.

It is so important for them to get a long range/endurance fighter jet to protect these assets.

Or get more carrier battlegroups.

 

[Andy1974]

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I didn't get a full sense of CH-9 size until reading this post



so it seems like the large long range UCAV is between this and WL-3.

It looks like this one won out. I wonder if we will still see WL-3 in this show. But it could very well be the case that this has won the competition.

I remember having a discussion on WL-3 with @Blitzo and @latenlazy on WL-3 back in 2022 when it got displayed. Even then, it seemed to be a huge deal when this thing can go into service.

But if they can get 100 of this into service, they have something that can terrorize Guam and Australia (if they can provide protection that far or if they can get close to within 500 km range without facing air defense after initial strike).

Fire power just got a lot more impressive.

It is so important for them to get a long range/endurance fighter jet to protect these assets.

From your link, very insightful..

it is estimated that it can replace the H-6 bomber to a certain extent. It is not too much to say that it is an intercontinental unmanned bomber. Few people pay attention to such a powerful drone

 

[Blitzo]

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I didn't get a full sense of CH-9 size until reading this post



so it seems like the large long range UCAV is between this and WL-3.

It looks like this one won out. I wonder if we will still see WL-3 in this show. But it could very well be the case that this has won the competition.

I remember having a discussion on WL-3 with @Blitzo and @latenlazy on WL-3 back in 2022 when it got displayed. Even then, it seemed to be a huge deal when this thing can go into service.

But if they can get 100 of this into service, they have something that can terrorize Guam and Australia (if they can provide protection that far or if they can get close to within 500 km range without facing air defense after initial strike).

Fire power just got a lot more impressive.

It is so important for them to get a long range/endurance fighter jet to protect these assets.

The idea of using non-stealthy, propeller driven MALE UAVs to conduct those kind of long range strike missions in a high end conflict is unrealistic in context of how unsurvivable they are even against a moderately degraded IADS.

These MALE UAVs in a high end conflict, if they had any use at all, would be better used for shorter range but longer endurance ISR missions in the mainland's immediate periphery.


Just because a UAV (or any other type of aircraft) is in theory "long range" doesn't mean they would actually survive to operate at long ranges. Instead, "long range" can be replaced by "short range, long endurance" missions which allows them to operate and survive in more permissive environments.

 

[SlothmanAllen]

Form follows function

It more just a compliment to Aviation Week writers and their concept artists! They really nailed the conceptual design of this type of aircraft. That rendering is like what, at least 10 years old if not more?

 

[tphuang]

The idea of using non-stealthy, propeller driven MALE UAVs to conduct those kind of long range strike missions in a high end conflict is unrealistic in context of how unsurvivable they are even against a moderately degraded IADS.

These MALE UAVs in a high end conflict, if they had any use at all, would be better used for shorter range but longer endurance ISR missions in the mainland's immediate periphery.


Just because a UAV (or any other type of aircraft) is in theory "long range" doesn't mean they would actually survive to operate at long ranges. Instead, "long range" can be replaced by "short range, long endurance" missions which allows them to operate and survive in more permissive environments.

it would be like with H-6K. You would not be flying them without escorts. Or at least when air defense has already been degraded.

You can theoretically have them carry 2 KD-20 and have them fly half way between China and Guam and launch them off. Just think of it as additional bomb trucks that have really long persistence.

 

[Blitzo]

it would be like with H-6K. You would not be flying them without escorts. Or at least when air defense has already been degraded.

You can theoretically have them carry 2 KD-20 and have them fly half way between China and Guam and launch them off. Just think of it as additional bomb trucks that have really long persistence.

These are MALE UAVs, not heavy strike UCAVs. Their combat radius will be significantly reduced by carrying two such weapons, while keeping all of the vulnerabilities of being a conventionally configured MALE UAV.


Just because an aircraft in theory has long range, doesn't mean they're suited to long range missions carrying large payloads.
For drones like these, doing long endurance missions surveilling say, Taiwan after a SEAD/DEAD campaign has been done to target and destroy popup targets, or contributing to immediate periphery ASW (carrying surface search radars and sonobuoy dispensers) would be a far superior use of their design.

I understand that in theory the PLA has a demand for long range fixed wing strike towards second island chain targets, but picking something even more vulnerable than H-6Ks for that mission profile isn't a great idea considering the vast array of other capabilities they should have in the pipeline for the long range fixed wing strike mission.

 

[tphuang]

These are MALE UAVs, not heavy strike UCAVs. Their combat radius will be significantly reduced by carrying two such weapons, while keeping all of the vulnerabilities of being a conventionally configured MALE UAV.


Just because an aircraft in theory has long range, doesn't mean they're suited to long range missions carrying large payloads.
For drones like these, doing long endurance missions surveilling say, Taiwan after a SEAD/DEAD campaign has been done to target and destroy popup targets, or contributing to immediate periphery ASW (carrying surface search radars and sonobuoy dispensers) would be a far superior use of their design.

I understand that in theory the PLA has a demand for long range fixed wing strike towards second island chain targets, but picking something even more vulnerable than H-6Ks for that mission profile isn't a great idea considering the vast array of other capabilities they should have in the pipeline for the long range fixed wing strike mission

Their regular range is 10000 km. I really don't think carrying 2t of payload would lower that be 70%. Doing bombing runs out to 1500km from the mainland border seem within their range.

For long endurance missions, they can certainly do that. But why not also also make it available for longer range missions?

I also don't know your argument for being more vunerable than H-6K. It should at minimum have much lower signature.