Chinese infantry fighting vehicles

The Observer · May 2, 2022

by78 said:
The rarely photographed 8x8 medical evacuation vehicle (with rear ramp door).

right on this subject, does anyone know why regular ZBDs and ZBLs don't have a rear ramp door, only the swing door? Is there any tactical advantage that the swing door has over the rear ramp?

Aniah · May 2, 2022

The Observer said:
right on this subject, does anyone know why regular ZBDs and ZBLs don't have a rear ramp door, only the swing door? Is there any tactical advantage that the swing door has over the rear ramp?

Could be that the ramp allows medics and bring or drag things into the vehicle easier compared to no ramp and that regular troops don't need this.

kentchang · May 2, 2022

Aniah said:
Could be that the ramp allows medics and bring or drag things into the vehicle easier compared to no ramp and that regular troops don't need this.

Isn't it just a matter of cost/complexity/weight? No hydraulics needed.

PapaOsama · May 2, 2022

by78 said:
A rare image: an amphibious armored minesweeper based on the ZBD-05 chassis.

Correct me if im wrong but I think that this vehicle is actually based on the original ZBD-04 chasis. It's just the addition of the side openings for the waterjets for turning in the rear (which are also a different shape btw) that make it seem like it's a ZBD-05. However, if u compare its tracks to the ZBD-04, especailly the postion of the rollers, they match up perfectly. Also, it seems generally smaller than the ZBD-05 and together with its retro look, one can assume it's probably based on the ZBD-04.

by78 · May 2, 2022

PapaOsama said:
Correct me if im wrong but I think that this vehicle is actually based on the original ZBD-04 chasis. It's just the addition of the side openings for the waterjets for turning in the rear (which are also a different shape btw) that make it seem like it's a ZBD-05. However, if u compare its tracks to the ZBD-04, especailly the postion of the rollers, they match up perfectly. Also, it seems generally smaller than the ZBD-05 and together with its retro look, one can assume it's probably based on the ZBD-04.

I believe you are right. Thank you for the correction.

wssth0306 · May 3, 2022

The Observer said:
right on this subject, does anyone know why regular ZBDs and ZBLs don't have a rear ramp door, only the swing door? Is there any tactical advantage that the swing door has over the rear ramp?

I remember few years ago reading about if on a Chinese magazine talking to the designer of the 8X8
He mentioned that the hydraulics for the ramp door when the development started it wasn't good enough , it had reliability problem.

So I think it might be the case that the disadvantage was price was paying by the need of a medical vehicle since it mainly deals with stretchers, and bigger doors is a must.

Also a doctrine thing , PLA like the idea of loading and unloading while the IFV is on the move , this is filmed consistently over the years.
A ramp door might just lest comfortable to use in this case though I don't think it is a engineering problem by this point.

the New 8X8 have both for example , it seems to me that it has a big ramp door and a small side folding door.

The Observer · May 3, 2022

wssth0306 said:
I remember few years ago reading about if on a Chinese magazine talking to the designer of the 8X8
He mentioned that the hydraulics for the ramp door when the development started it wasn't good enough , it had reliability problem.

So I think it might be the case that the disadvantage was price was paying by the need of a medical vehicle since it mainly deals with stretchers, and bigger doors is a must.

Also a doctrine thing , PLA like the idea of loading and unloading while the IFV is on the move , this is filmed consistently over the years.
A ramp door might just lest comfortable to use in this case though I don't think it is a engineering problem by this point.
View attachment 88175
the New 8X8 have both for example , it seems to me that it has a big ramp door and a small side folding door.

Hmmm... That's an interesting anecdote. Western IFVs also have a small swing door in addition to their main ramp, but it was more of a backup. Maybe PLA doctrine combined with the ramp hydraulic reliability issue oriented the designers towards swing door as the main option.

And now the hydraulic reliability might have improved and PLA doctrine might have evolved to the point where ramp door make more sense as the main entry-exit option.

plawolf · May 3, 2022

t2contra said:
Then design it to accommodate one. 12.7mm is hardly enough for protection when the enemies nowadays are often heavily armed. Other countries' APCs are built to cater for both calibres, like the Israeli, Turkish, Austria's, etc.

You realise the whole point of a recon vehicle is to look, not shoot right?

The 12.7mm is really only there as insurance so the enemy has something to think about as the reccie drives the opposite direction as fast as it can.

The PLA is already massively overgunned when it comes to their IFVs and other armoured forces, with assault guns, mortars, ATGM carriers and more on top of the traditional heavy autocannons for direct organic fire support before you even look at all the artillery, attack helicopters, UCAVs and fixed wing fastjets.

The point is a PLA armoured formation already has way more integrated firepower than pretty much anything else on the battlefield, so there is little value to overload everything with even more and bigger dakka. Sometimes you need more space and speed.

dawn_strike · May 3, 2022

The Observer said:
Hmmm... That's an interesting anecdote. Western IFVs also have a small swing door in addition to their main ramp, but it was more of a backup. Maybe PLA doctrine combined with the ramp hydraulic reliability issue oriented the designers towards swing door as the main option.

And now the hydraulic reliability might have improved and PLA doctrine might have evolved to the point where ramp door make more sense as the main entry-exit option.

If you want to frequently board/evacuate the vehicle on the move, then you still need a swing door. Since Russian/Chinese idea for IFVs is to accompany the infantry/tanks and break through enemy line, the swing door would remain their first choice while ramp door is more like an alternative.
American IFVs are more like APCs with better weaponry -- to unload the infantry and provide fire support. Thus it is more comfortable to use a ramp door to un-borad when the vehicle stops.

broadsword · May 3, 2022

plawolf said:
You realise the whole point of a recon vehicle is to look, not shoot right?

The 12.7mm is really only there as insurance so the enemy has something to think about as the reccie drives the opposite direction as fast as it can.

The PLA is already massively overgunned when it comes to their IFVs and other armoured forces, with assault guns, mortars, ATGM carriers and more on top of the traditional heavy autocannons for direct organic fire support before you even look at all the artillery, attack helicopters, UCAVs and fixed wing fastjets.

The point is a PLA armoured formation already has way more integrated firepower than pretty much anything else on the battlefield, so there is little value to overload everything with even more and bigger dakka. Sometimes you need more space and speed.

Good explanation without histrionics.

Chinese infantry fighting vehicles

The Observer

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Aniah

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kentchang

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PapaOsama

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by78

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wssth0306

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The Observer

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plawolf

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dawn_strike

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broadsword

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