Chinese Hypersonic Developments (HGVs/HCMs)

Wrought · May 21, 2024

AssassinsMace said:
It's like when Ang Lee directed the movie The Ice Storm. He got a lot of heat from critics because how can this foreigner make a movie about Americans having affairs making the US look bad? Well the movie was based on a book written by a white person. Like I've been saying many times in this forum... In the US crimes are not determined by the act one commits. Crimes are determined by two factors... who commits the act and who's the victim of that act. I didn't bring up what's technically correct which someone else did that you didn't have a problem with doing because he was defending the US.

Ok I'll be honest here, it sounds like you are looking to bring a political issue into a technical space. I don't particularly care about US crimes or spin or narrative, it's all trash. The term ASBM refers to a specific kind of missile which means something in the context of Chinese Hypersonic Developments. If all you want to do is whine about politics then I suggest you do it somewhere else.

taxiya said:
Lots of generic names have narrower and specific definitions than the names literally express, such as marriage which was never written into paper as between a biological male and female humanbeing and yet everybody agrees it is between man and woman until 2010s. ASBM was used by US millitary to refer to Soviet and Chinese effort to use a specialized ballistic missile to hit a moving ship. If the US millitary use the broader definition as you do, they would have already had ASBM themselves, but they never make that claim. So if it is not the name, what is US really spining? I think we should respect a specific term even if the letters are not perfectly reflective.

[addition]
Another example is EMALS which is a generic name. It has been broadly agreed in this forum to use it specifically to refer to the EM cat of US origin. While referring the CAT of PLAN we use EM cat.

If you have a technical distinction to make about terminology, then I think that is perfectly valid. And if the original post said "I think ASBM is the wrong term to use, we should use XYZ instead" then I would never say anything. What is not valid is using this thread to complain about some political narrative nonsense which may or may not be something the US is actually doing as opposed your paranoid imagination.

AssassinsMace · May 21, 2024

Wrought said:
Ok I'll be honest here, it sounds like you are looking to bring a political issue into a technical space. I don't particularly care about US crimes or spin or narrative, it's all trash. ASBM refers to a specific kind of missile which means something in the context of Chinese Hypersonic Developments. If all you want to do is whine about politics then I suggest you do it somewhere else.

You mean the US claiming the Houthis were using ASBMs wasn't political from the start like using the Zircon to claim how Chinese hypersonic missiles will perform...?

Wrought · May 21, 2024

AssassinsMace said:
You mean the US claiming the Houthis were using ASBMs wasn't political from the start like using the Zircon to claim how Chinese hypersonic missile will perform...?

I mean that if you have a problem with the US claiming something about ASBMs for some political reason around hypothetical Chinese connections which may or may not just be your paranoid imagination, then you should do it somewhere else. Not here.

AssassinsMace · May 21, 2024

Wrought said:
I mean that if you have a problem with the US claiming something about ASBMs for some political reason around hypothetical Chinese connections which may or may not just be your paranoid imagination, then you should do it somewhere else. Not here.

Of course you don't want me to bring up the possibility of US disinformation regarding China's hypersonic missiles in a thread about Chinese hypersonic missiles...

Wrought · May 21, 2024

AssassinsMace said:
Of course you don't want me to bring up the possibility of US disinformation regarding China's hypersonic missiles in a thread about Chinese hypersonic missiles...

Of course I don't. I would much rather talk about Chinese hypersonic missiles than whatever latest crap is coming out of the US. It doesn't matter what they say, what matters is the missiles themselves. A warhead doesn't care what you call it.

Look at the name. It is not US disinformation regarding China's hypersonic missiles.

drowingfish · May 21, 2024

Wrought said:
Ok I'll be honest here, it sounds like you are looking to bring a political issue into a technical space. I don't particularly care about US crimes or spin or narrative, it's all trash. The term ASBM refers to a specific kind of missile which means something in the context of Chinese Hypersonic Developments. If all you want to do is whine about politics then I suggest you do it somewhere else.

If you have a technical distinction to make about terminology, then I think that is perfectly valid. And if the original post said "I think ASBM is the wrong term to use, we should use XYZ instead" then I would never say anything. What is not valid is using this thread to complain about some political narrative nonsense which may or may not be something the US is actually doing as opposed your paranoid imagination.

i just read through the last few pages i think you are deliberately obfuscating the issue here. to a third person it seems quite clear what assassin is trying to say. Houthis used missiles that can technically be called ASBM, so now we have people going around and saying that China's ASBM will achieve effects similar to that. another example of this exists on the air force side where some people, in bad faith, attempt to draw parallel between Russian Su series and Chinese J-16, cuz they are all technically flankers.

Wrought · May 21, 2024

drowingfish said:
i just read through the last few pages i think you are deliberately obfuscating the issue here. to a third person it seems quite clear what assassin is trying to say. Houthis used missiles that can technically be called ASBM, so now we have people going around and saying that China's ASBM will achieve effects similar to that. another example of this exists on the air force side where some people, in bad faith, attempt to draw parallel between Russian Su series and Chinese J-16, cuz they are all technically flankers.

And why is it in any way important that there are idiots going around saying idiotic things? Is it some kind of revelation that bad faith arguments are made on the internet? What information is gained from whining about the fact that idiots exist? They're hardly the first, and they definitely won't be the last. If you have such a problem with them, then go argue with them instead of whining about it here.

As I said already, I have no problems with technical considerations about the proper terminology. But that's not what you're talking about, and not what he was talking about either.

totenchan · May 22, 2024

drowingfish said:
i just read through the last few pages i think you are deliberately obfuscating the issue here. to a third person it seems quite clear what assassin is trying to say. Houthis used missiles that can technically be called ASBM, so now we have people going around and saying that China's ASBM will achieve effects similar to that. another example of this exists on the air force side where some people, in bad faith, attempt to draw parallel between Russian Su series and Chinese J-16, cuz they are all technically flankers.

Does the existence of idiots preclude the use of proper terminology? Assassin's complaints don't be appear to based on anything the US has said officially, and while I'm sure people saying that exist, the problem lies in their technical understanding of the differences between advanced long-range ASBM and shitty IR-guided-if-at-all Iranian hand-me-downs, and not the use of the "ASBM" term itself.

Kalec · May 23, 2024

China tested a new SCRAMJET missile demonstrator on May 19.

该型演示弹是目前国内最大的双侧进气布局固体冲压超声速巡航导弹，此次飞行采用了改进升级后的动力系统，是该型导弹开展的第五次发射试验。

The demonstrator is currently the largest dual-intake solid scramjet missile in China, and the flight, which utilized an improved and upgraded power system, was the fifth launch test by the missile.

固体冲压发动机采用固体贫氧推进剂

Solid scramjet engine use solid no-oxidizer-propellant.

本次试验使用的固体冲压发动机采用固体助推器和冲压补燃室共用燃烧室的整体式设计方案，且在冲压发动机工作过程中，通过燃气流量的调节控制实现推力可调，因此该发动机具有自适应调节特性，机动性更好，结构一体化设计简洁。该巡航级固体冲压发动机综合性能达到国际先进水平。

The engine adopts the integral design of the booster and ramjet combustion chamber. During the working process of the ramjet engine, the thrust is adjustable through the control of gas flow rate, so the engine has adaptive adjustment characteristics, better mobility, and simple structural integration design. The comprehensive performance of this scramjet engine has reached the international advanced level.

Source:

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taxiya · May 23, 2024

Kalec said:
China tested a new SCRAMJET missile demonstrator on May 19.

The demonstrator is currently the largest dual-intake solid scramjet missile in China, and the flight, which utilized an improved and upgraded power system, was the fifth launch test by the missile.

Solid scramjet engine use solid no-oxidizer-propellant.

The engine adopts the integral design of the booster and ramjet combustion chamber. During the working process of the ramjet engine, the thrust is adjustable through the control of gas flow rate, so the engine has adaptive adjustment characteristics, better mobility, and simple structural integration design. The comprehensive performance of this scramjet engine has reached the international advanced level.

Source:
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View attachment 129979

Sorry, nowhere in the article says SCramjet (超燃冲压发动机), including what you have quoated. Here I highlight the Chinese texts and present the English translation.

该型演示弹是目前国内最大的双侧进气布局固体冲压超声速巡航导弹，此次飞行采用了改进升级后的动力系统，是该型导弹开展的第五次发射试验。

冲压 is RAM
超声速 is supersonic (the speed of the cruise missile)

固体冲压发动机采用固体贫氧推进剂

固体 solid
冲压发动机 Ramjet engine

本次试验使用的固体冲压发动机采用固体助推器和冲压补燃室共用燃烧室的整体式设计方案，且在冲压发动机工作过程中，通过燃气流量的调节控制实现推力可调，因此该发动机具有自适应调节特性，机动性更好，结构一体化设计简洁。该巡航级固体冲压发动机综合性能达到国际先进水平。

Once again ramjet

Multiple places in the article have the word 冲压发动机 (ramjet) instead of 超燃冲压发动机 (scramjet). I wonder how could you have confused it. Technically scramjet is a kind of ramjet except it combust in supersonic air flow, but I think it is a convention that the two are distinguished as two non-overlaping catagories.

Chinese Hypersonic Developments (HGVs/HCMs)

Wrought

Junior Member

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General

Wrought

Junior Member

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General

Wrought

Junior Member

drowingfish

Junior Member

Wrought

Junior Member

totenchan

Junior Member

Kalec

Junior Member

taxiya

Brigadier