Chinese Geopolitics

Jeff Head said:

I think every single one of us knows what it means to respect and trust some one. It does not even have to be written down.

That's the universal standard I am talking bout.

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Let's talk specifics: Philippines taking China to the International Court, and China opting out of it;

Why is China being singled out for using the same international law process to its advantage? What level of hypocrisy does it take for other nations to tell China it may use only sections of international law they say to use, and not sections that benefits it? Is that the price of international respect? If so, then is it any wonder few nations willingly carry that cross?

Sadly, there are very few individuals, or administrations in any country that can garner that type of respect amongst whole people's...but that is, nonetheless, what's necessary.

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Respect also requires fairness and justice. It's unjust to tell one party it must yield in the name of goodness, while the other party get a pass. This whole SCS troubles started with passage of UNCLOS, but China is being blamed for all the ills, while smaller claimants like Philippines and Vietnam get passes for lighting the fuse. No justice= no respect; it's a two-way street.

Endlessly referring to breaches of trust in the past, are as I said, something every single nation can do ad nausium...because no hands are completely clean historically. All that does is lead to reasons not to trust or have meaningful dialog.

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True, and we see problem in the US with endless droning of slavery. But, unlike victims of America's original sin, some of the victims of WWII atrocities are still alive, and they deserve justice. So, the issue isn't dead and buried, not by a long shot.

As I also said, leaders need to be wary, and the need to verify what they are being told...but that process, willing to honestly engage, while remaining wary and verifying, is how trust is established and how meaningful, and potentially long lasting relationships are forged.

There are no shortcuts to producing those results.

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Agreed.

Blackstone said:

Let's talk specifics: Philippines taking China to the International Court, and China opting out of it;

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We already did and the answer to this...on both sides...is the same as before. Trust and respect have to be earned on both sides. They haven't been yet with respect to this issue. Neither side is clean or lilly whie when it comes to their pretensions about this issue either.

Blackstone said:

But, unlike victims of America's original sin, some of the victims of WWII atrocities are still alive, and they deserve justice. So, the issue isn't dead and buried, not by a long shot.

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So..we get down to it.

Fine.

The rules at SD are clear on this score, whether it is atrocities by the NAZIs, Stalin, Tojo, Mao, etc, they are not to be raised on SD. Either seeking justice or revenge. There are survivors of all of those, or their children who were directly impacted from all of them. Many will say that many, many generations later descendants of slavery are still victims. Victimhood can be extended out as long as people want to try and gain from those past ills. It is a sad fact of human nature.

These other grievances are many decades old, and there is more than enough blood to go around.

So far as SD is concerned, they are over...and by a long shot.

We have had this discussion before.

No SD member should raise these historical issues for the purpose of seeking political, ideological, or emotional gain or ground from them in dicussions here. It is a zero sum game because the other side will raise equally disturbing issues for the same purposes in reply. This leads to flame bait, arguements, a complete loss of decorum and professionalism, warnings. Moderation, bannings, closed threads, etc.

DO NOT GO THERE

US Congressman love to use name calling against CCP, calling communist thugs during public debate. They are not even shy about that.

On major Media Bob becko saying Chinaman not al queda is single greatest threat to US. Not shy about that either.

I am not making these up or inflaming, there are totally out there in public to see and hear.

Ok, trying to get respect from them?.. OK good luck to that.

Jeff Head said:

We already did and the answer to this...on both sides...is the same as before. Trust and respect have to be earned on both sides. They haven't been yet with respect to this issue. Neither side is clean or lily whie when it comes to their pretensions either.

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We're on the same page here, but China/Philippines/Vietnam/Japan are not. It's literally a zero-sum game for them, with no solutions on hand. My beef is with outsiders taking sides without giving equal time to the other claimant. It's too easy to point to the stronger party and say you're bigger and stronger, so it's all your fault when you throw your weight around. The real world is much more complex than that.

mao_jr said:

US Congressman love to use name calling against CCP...

On major Media Bob becko saying Chinaman not al queda is single greatest threat...

Ok, trying to get respect from them?.. OK good luck to that.

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Look, Mao, anyone can find inflaming comments if they look for them...on both sides. You actually think that there is no Chinese rhetoric out there that is inflaming that anyone here could not pull into the conversation?

Here on SD if you want to have a reasoned, professional discussion, that maintains good decorum (which is what SD prides itself on), you will have to rise above that.

Keep it reasoned, keep it rational, do not pull wringers into the discussion to make points, keep emotion and national chest thumping out of...and if you do, you will do fine.

Otherwise, sooner or later, Darth Vador is going to come along and thump you.

mao_jr said:

US Congressman love to use name calling against CCP, calling communist thugs during public debate. They are not even shy about that.

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So...? Politicians do that, it's what goes on in assembly halls all over the world.

On major Media Bob becko saying Chinaman not al queda is single greatest threat to US. Not shy about that either.

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Truth is a great defense; China is a much greater threat to the US than al Queda economically, militarily, culturally, and geopolitically.

Blackstone said:

Truth is a great defense; China is a much greater threat to the US than al Queda economically, militarily, culturally, and geopolitically.

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Look at that paranoid thinking. Translation... if the US doesn't control every aspect of your life... you're a threat! Independence is a threat. Everyone else can say the same of the US. If China is the Al Qaeda of all these things, that would be an international crime. So why hasn't the world attacked China militarily to stop China? As we have seen in earlier posts, the US can open a can a whoop ass on China if it wanted to. Why haven't they if China is the Al Qaeda of all things? Why hasn't the US scooped up Chinese all over the world for no reason other than being Chinese and sent them to Gitmo without trial? Is China trying to convert other countries especially when it comes to religion? Guess who else besides Al Qaeda is trying to convert others into their religion? Al Qaeda is just direct when dealing with defiance to their will. Others just try to spread paranoia so to get others to act against those that resist.

And some people think they're the good guys...

AssassinsMace said:

Look at that paranoid thinking. Translation... if the US doesn't control every aspect of your life... you're a threat!

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Your translation is of your own making. Blackstone did not say anything like that

AssassinsAce said:

If China is the Al Qaeda of all these things, that would be an international crime. So why hasn't the world attacked China militarily to stop China?

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He never said China was any kind of Al Queda.

AssassinsMace said:

Others just try to spread paranoia so to get others to act against those that resist.

And some people think they're the good guys...

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Blackstone did not say China was any kind of international criminal.

That is pure hyerbole. You do not have to be actively committing a crime, or attacking, or even be hostile to be a threat.

China has the power, the weapons, the economy, the manpower, etc., etc. that could pose a far greater threat than Al Queda ever could hope to. That is the meaning.

Conversley, the US is a also greater "threat" to China than Al Queda just as China is to the US. That does not mean they are an enemy, or are actively attacking. It simply means that any such nation can pose a potential threat to another.

All the more reason to establish the dialog and trust I spoke of earlier.

Please use some critical thinking here...and conversely, explain things that very easily could be taken wrong.

Jeff Head said:

Your translation is of your own making. Blackstone did not say anything like that

He never said China was any kind of Al Queda.


Blackstone did not say China was any kind of international criminal.

That is pure hyerbole. You do not have to be actively committing a crime, or attacking, or even be hostile to be a threat.

China as the power, the weapons, the economy, the manpower, etc., etc. that could pose a far greater threat than Al Queda ever could hope to. That is the meaning.

Conversley, the US is a also greater "threat" to China than Al Queda just as China is to the US. That does not mean they are an enemy, or are actively attacking. It simply means that any such nation can pose a potential threat to another.

All the more reason to etablish the dialog and trust I spoke of earlier.

Please use some critical thinking here...and conversely, explain things that very easily could be taken wrong.

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He's the one that brought up associating China as being worse than Al Qaeda in economics, military, culture, and geopolitics. Would you like it if I associated the US in terms as being worse than Al Qaeda? Al Qaeda doesn't have a world power backing them. They're not a government. The same can be said of plenty of Western NGO's including religious. China is not being painted as an international criminal threat? How is economic competition equate to China being worse than terrorists over economics? Just because the US doesn't have control over China's economy? How is China a worse threat than Al Qaeda over culture? So who's worse than Al Qaeda? What is Al Qaeda other than the context of a criminal terrorist organization that the West has painted? If it's just being strong competition, since when was that wrong?

C'mon, you wouldn't like the US being painted as worse than Al Qaeda in any context. We're suppose to believe Blackstone's inflammatory charges out to be harmless discussion? If that kind of language is allowed, then it's all right for others to do the same. Do you want that?

AssassinsMace said:

He's the one that brought up associating China as being worse than Al Qaeda in economics, military, culture, and geopolitics. Would you like it if I associated the US in terms as being worse than Al Qaeda? Al Qaeda doesn't have a world power backing them. They're not a government. The same can be said of plenty of Western NGO's including religious. China is not being painted as an international criminal threat? How is economic competition equate to China being worse than terrorists over economics? Just because the US doesn't have control over China's economy? How is China a worse threat than Al Qaeda over culture? So who's worse than Al Qaeda? What is Al Qaeda other than the context of a criminal terrorist organization that the West has painted? If it's just being strong competition, since when was that wrong?

C'mon, you wouldn't like the US being painted as worse than Al Qaeda in any context. We're suppose to believe Blackstone's inflammatory charges out to be harmless discussion? If that kind of language is allowed, then it's all right for others to do the same. Do you want that?

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Well, in this case, he said china was a bigger threat to the us than al Qaeda, not that china was "worse" than al Qaeda in those areas.

Granted, black stone has made a few rather disparaging statements in the past so I can see how one can misread what he wrote, but in this case his statement is a pretty straight forward one.