Chinese Engine Development

Zihan said:

Is this claim correct or known by all here that ws-20 is equivalent to 1990s engines. or is there a catch? if this statement is true without caveats than, there is reason to worry I think.

Click to expand...

sunnymaxi said:

this is completely wrong.

just tell me one thing, what materials were available back in 1990 and what material and manufacturing techniques available right now ? its day and night difference..

AECC confirmed in march, 2023. we have not yet selected the material of WS-20.. i believe material and components have selected now and they choose best available option right now in China. AECC also developed civil version of WS-20 called AEF-1300 with better components in context with fuel consumption..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
there are three process that can define the ENGINE efficiency and performance

1. engine cycle design (that’s things like the number of fan compressor and turbine stages, and mechanical efficiency of the turbine, etc).

2. material quality, which determines “how hard and fast and hot can run this engine

3. and the most important is your production process quality.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
just because WS-20 derived from WS-10, and WS-10 itself share same core with CFM. doesn't mean WS-20 performance will be like early 1990's engines. we are living in 2024. China evolving at unprecedented speed. Gas turbine industry is one of the examples.

same with WS-15, an Engine developed in 21st century and again redesigned in 2018 just to increase the technological parameters. early WS-15 targeted 150kn-155kn maximum thrust but that plan totally scrapped. this is a reborn WS-15 what we are currently watching..

WS-15 definitely will be better than F-119 in TIT/Thrust and other parameters. but Engine life span , MBTO , durability. can't say anything. only time will tell.. but WS-15 will be a very advanced machine confirmed by many inside source.

Click to expand...

by78 said:

Does anyone have access to the video? It appears to mention L15/JL-10s are being re-engined with, presumably the indigenous WS-17s.

Click to expand...

Zihan said:

Is this claim correct or known by all here that ws-20 is equivalent to 1990s engines. or is there a catch? if this statement is true without caveats than, there is reason to worry I think.

Click to expand...

GiantPanda said:

To be honest, the original poster seems to have made a perfectly unsubstantiated claim without any source or even a reasonable analysis about the WS-20. He simply stated a "concensus" about the WS-20 that I couldn't find published anywhere.

I have not come across any documents stating that anyone who thought the WS-20 is equivalent to a 1990s engine. At least not among the places where people are seriously looking at for info on Chinese aviation.

Now if you are taking posts from Indian forums, MAGA, Wanwan or Falun Gong related Youtube channels as gospel you might come across these "everyone says" claims.

Click to expand...

Alfa_Particle said:

Not exactly related, but Orca did describe the WS-20 as a "high definition remake of the CFM-56". If I remember correctly, he later in one of the comments saying it was the CFM-56-5B in particular.

Now again, I'm not exactly sure about how credible he is at engine development in general, but judging by the poster posted by AECC featuring the 24-bladed engine with XX on it, I would say it's very possible that the claim that the WS-20 is the 56-5B remastered is indeed true.

I'll try to find when Orca posted it.

Click to expand...

GiantPanda said:

Yes, it is fairly well-known that the WS-10 and -- by extension -- the WS-20 came from China studying the CFM-56's core.

And that said, the CFM-56 for civilian aircraft was mass produced until five years ago and is still in limited production for military aircraft. There are millions on them still flying today in Airbuses and Boeings. So being based on the CFM-56 hardly guaranteed the WS-20 as a "1990s" engine which was my take on that particular point.

The WS-20 would likely be far more similiar to the CFM-56-B6 on the A320s that came off the Tianjin FAL than the CFM-56 versions in the 1980s when the WS-10 project started.

Click to expand...

GiantPanda said:

Yes, it is fairly well-known that the WS-10 and -- by extension -- the WS-20 came from China studying the CFM-56's core.

And that said, the CFM-56 for civilian aircraft was mass produced until five years ago and is still in limited production for military aircraft. There are millions on them still flying today in Airbuses and Boeings. So being based on the CFM-56 hardly guaranteed the WS-20 as a "1990s" engine which was my take on that particular point.

The WS-20 would likely be far more similiar to the CFM-56-B6 on the A320s that came off the Tianjin FAL than the CFM-56 versions in the 1980s when the WS-10 project started.

Click to expand...

Atomicfrog said:

In any case, you need to start somewhere. If the first true step for a large high-bypass turbofan engine is a CFM-56-B6 equivalent, I find it quite big. Now imagine how big will be the second step ???

Click to expand...