Chinese Engine Development

Blitzo

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Deino said:
no, just look at the nozzles
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I don't think there is necessarily an implication that the aircraft or engines in the video are depicting what the commentary is saying.

That is to say, the imagery/footage is not relevant, rather the speech is the important part.

However, as I wrote over on the other thread, ultimately given that we do not have any credible rumours/updates about WS-17, there is no reason for us to suspect that this is talking about WS-17.

Chinese Trainer Aircraft (JL-8, JL-9, JL-10 (L-15), etc.)

Does anyone have access to the video? It appears to mention L15/JL-10s are being re-engined with, presumably the indigenous WS-17s. Are we sure this is talking about WS-17, as opposed to talking about one of the past engine changes they did; i.e.: Al-222-25 between the nonAB and AB variants...
www.sinodefenceforum.com
 
G

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Salyut managed to increase the Al-222-25 engine lifetime to 3000 hours between overhauls and 6000 hours total engine lifetime. The initial Ukrainian engine had like a quarter of the lifetime. And I think the final Ukrainian series version is like half the lifetime or worse.
Given the technology level of the engine I doubt that it would take China that long to clone it.
 
broadsword

broadsword

Brigadier
OppositeDay said:
CFM56-5B first flew in 1993. It's an early-mid 1990s engine. When I wrote WS-20 seemed to be comparable to early-mid 1990s Western engines, I specifically had CFM56-5B in mind.
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The WS-20(second pic) has wider fan blades than the CFM56-5B, so it has been updated at least in that part.




cfm56-5b-L.png



fcaf6daa-aa9a-4a72-ad74-8b11483c1112.jpeg
 
O

OppositeDay

Senior Member
Registered Member
Well I just realized how little we know about the current status of WS20. I thought WS20 looked like this with 30+ narrow blades
w700d1q75cms.jpg

Source:
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If this is how WS20 looks now then it resembles CFM56-5 series (early-mid 1990s).


However, perhaps WS20 looks more like its civilian version (AEF1300) with 22 wide chord blades
636ae6dfd22ac43c2ec23dbb-3807237819.jpeg

Cute Orca claimed WS-20, unlike AEF1300, doesn't have composite blades. If we assume he's right, it still leaves open whether WS-20 has wide chord fan. CFM56 7 series (late 1990s) has titanium wide chord fan, but not 5 series. Cute Orca also claimed WS-20 resembled CFM56 5 series.

If one assumes that AEF1300's prospects in the civilian market is not strong enough to warrant a complete re-design of the fan, then perhaps the current version of WS-20 does have wide chord fan and the first picture represents an earlier stage of development.

In summary for and against wide chord fan on WS-20

Against wide chord
+ Grainy picture of a WS-20 model provided by a military blogger in an article published on QQ and Sina.
+ Cute Orca's claim that WS-20 'copies' CFM56 5 series design.

For wide chord
+ The civilian model AEF1300 uses wide chord fan

Even though more public information are available for WS-20 than WS-15 as there's a civilian version, we still don't know much for sure. So I take back everything I said about the methodology of using WS-20 as a proxy to gauge the tech level of WS-15.
 
Alfa_Particle

Alfa_Particle

Junior Member
Registered Member
OppositeDay said:
That wasn't my post.
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My bad. Then in that case, no it isn't. The nose cone is different, plus the screenshot is from an AECC video if I remember correctly.

OppositeDay said:
Well I just realized how little we know about the current status of WS20. I thought WS20 looked like this with 30+ narrow blades
View attachment 126153

Source:
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If this is how WS20 looks now then it resembles CFM56-5 series (early-mid 1990s).
Click to expand...

Again, the 56-5 series have ONLY 24 fan blades. The even earlier models have 36.

OppositeDay said:
Cute Orca claimed WS-20, unlike AEF1300, doesn't have composite blades. If we assume he's right, it still leaves open whether WS-20 has wide chord fan. CFM56 7 series (late 1990s) has titanium wide chord fan, but not 5 series. Cute Orca also claimed WS-20 resembled CFM56 5 series.

If one assumes that AEF1300's prospects in the civilian market is not strong enough to warrant a complete re-design of the fan, then perhaps the current version of WS-20 does have wide chord fan and the first picture represents an earlier stage of development.
Click to expand...
It makes complete sense to me in a maintenance perspective. Ti-leading edge composite fan blades are much more tricky and expensive to maintain and replace if I remember correctly. And strategic lifters don't really benefit from the advantages composites blades bring, say weight savings/better fuel economy.

Comparing that to commercial airlines, which usually lands in much better conditions and not going through constant environmental stress (less than strategic lifters at least), and require better fuel economy, the benefits composite fan blades bring are greater.
In summary for and against wide chord fan on WS-20

OppositeDay said:
Against wide chord
+ Grainy picture of a WS-20 model provided by a military blogger in an article published on QQ and Sina.
+ Cute Orca's claim that WS-20 'copies' CFM56-5 series design.

For wide chord
+ The civilian model AEF1300 uses wide chord fan

Even though more public information are available for WS-20 than WS-15 as there's a civilian version, we still don't know much for sure. So I take back everything I said about the methodology of using WS-20 as a proxy to gauge the tech level of WS-15.
Click to expand...
I'm heavily leaning towards non-wide chord titanium fan blades. The reason why AEF-1300 uses them is, as I said, probably due to the different maintenance factors and requirements for commercial airlines. No reason for the WS-20 to implement them.
 
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