Chinese Engine Development

by78

by78

General
A procurement document that was posted today. It announces an open bid for a comparative radar signature test to be carried out on the rear aspect of a certain technology demonstrator (某工程验证机后向雷达隐身多方案对比测试及弱散射源雷达散射特性研究采购需求采购公告). If I'm reading this correctly, the bid implies that there are multiple competing designs, which necessitates a comparative test to find the design with the best radar signature reduction performance. Unfortunately, the screenshot partially obscures the name of the entity that submitted the bid; it only says "中国航发四", which could be AECC Sichuan Gas Turbine Research Institute/624 Institute (中国航发四川燃气涡轮研究院) or AECC Factory 402 (中国航发四二〇厂) or some other entity.

If indeed the document was submitted by the 624 Institute, then this could be for testing a new engine nozzle. WS-15 with a 2D and/or 3D TVC nozzle perhaps? If this bid has nothing to do with engines, then this could be about anything from H-20's rear fuselage design to J-20A's rear fuselage design.

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H

Hitomi

Junior Member
Registered Member
VESSEL said:
Depending on the thrust to mass ratio, the actual thrust is between 12000kgf and 13000kgf. Compared to 12000kgf, 13000kgf is a more reasonable number. I will insist on 13000kgf until conclusive evidence appears.
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13000 would make it the clear best in weight class though, are we going to be this optimistic?
 
H

Hitomi

Junior Member
Registered Member
ACuriousPLAFan said:
What other engines are within that range?
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Most well-known and closest would be the F414 EPE variant which I think is still a proposal from GE unless another country(I think they offered it to the Indians) is willing to fund it's development. Another would be the EJ200 stage 2(I am not even sure this one is really a thing). BTW the claimed 12000kgf from @VESSEL initially would put it at the same projected wet thrust as the F414-EPE though at this range of difference, looking at the T/W and BPR would be needed for better judgement.
 
broadsword

broadsword

Brigadier
No one venturing an estimate yet on the performance of the CJ1000? Will it be within 1% of LEAP-1C? I think within 1.5% should be reasonable.
 
R

RadDisconnect

New Member
Registered Member
Another point of comparison is some data about the izd.30 that was released by Saturn and posted on Secret Projects and another link about the engine for the Sukhoi LTS.

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So looking at the charts and the translated report, the izd.30 seems like a good engine, but not what the "Russia strong" crowd keeps hyping it up to be. So the izd.30 has 19% better T/W than the AL-41F1, which has a weight of about 1,600 kg and thrust of 14.5 metric tons or 32,000 lbs (15 metric tons or 33,000 lbs in emergency mode), which means T/W of 9.06. This means that izd.30 has T/W of 10.8, so when combined with estimated weight of 1,500 kg, that means 16.2 metric tons or 35,700 lbs full afterburner and 16.7 metric tons or 36,800 lbs in emergency mode. Similarly, the link said that engine of the 5th generation, which likely refers to izd.30, has 30% more thrust than AL-31FP which has 12.5 metric tons of thrust, so this would result in 16.25 metric tons or 35,800 lbs of thrust for izd.30. Which is decent but not amazing considering it's more than 20 years newer than F119.

The specific thrust of AL-41F1 being only 6% lower than izd.30 also doesn't make the izd.30 seem that impressive. Since it fits in the same footprint as the AL-41F1, it's unlikely to have more than 10% higher air flow, which means that it only produces 17% more dry thrust, and considering that Su-57 with AL-41F1 only supercruise at Mach 1.3 or 1.4, some fantastical claims about Su-57's supercruise at Mach 2 with izd.30 is also very unlikely. However, it likely will allow Mach 1.5-1.6 supercruise which is respectable.

The durability of 6,000 hours for the izd.30 is also an improvement over the AL-41F1 with 1,000 hours TBO and 4,000 hours total life, but that's still short of the F119, which has 2,000 hours TBO for hot section, 4,000 hours for cold section, and 8,000 hours life.
 
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