I wasnt aware that South Korea can develop indigenous jet engines. AFAIK only the US, Russia, UK and france have that capability. Not even germany can do it (at least not a complete one).
That gives an ideia of the challenges in that area.
Chinese Engine Development
- Thread starter jackbh
- Start date
I wasnt aware that South Korea can develop indigenous jet engines. AFAIK only the US, Russia, UK and france have that capability. Not even germany can do it (at least not a complete one).
That gives an ideia of the challenges in that area.
MastanKhan
Junior Member
Hi,
My first post and I am going off tangent---you are talking about my field---automotive engr---I had the same misconception when I joined my auto engr school in the u s of a in the early 80's.
It took me some time to realize that the american cars are designed the way they are, is because the american engr wanted them to be deisgned that way and the american buyer wanted them to be as such and the driven the way they drive.
Engineering technology is a frame of mind---if you were an auto / mech engr etc, you would know that each one of them design their engines different than the others---even though all of them are internal combustion.
If mercedes was such a great car then why they did they have to buy chrysler---maybe you didn't know---for its designs---chasis---engines---transmissions---mercedes has been using american made auto transmission for a long time---and so has porsche---german canbnot make automatic transmissions---.
Oh by the way---you know why mercedes is cheaper now than it was 10 years ago---and why the quality is so poor---because it is not a mercedes anymore----you are getting a glorified chrysler sometimes.
The reason gm and chrysler have lost is because of the gas prices---their analysts failed to comprehend the changing market in 2007---2008. The $150 a barrel broke their back.
As a matter of fact---chrysler didnot even have one single car that gave 35 miles a gallon on the highway---they had discontinued their dodge neon and went all the way for muscle car.
And yes you are right---it won't be easy for china to manufacture a high quality internal combustion engine. They should have gone the way Hyundai corp went---bought mitsubishi engines for their cars---once they had learnt enough, they made their own.
I doubt if china will be able to come out with a world class quality automobile internal combustion engine in the next 10 to 15 years of time.
In this day and age, it is rather silly to design your own engine---it is better to buy it from someone else and manufacture it in your factory.
License production only!
Infra_Man99
Banned Idiot
You're comparing Mercedes to all US cars? I don't have to be a chef to taste what food is good, what is mediocre, and what is bad. I don't have to be a computer programmer to notice that Microsoft OS is inferior in reliability and user friendliness to Apple OS. I don't have to be a champion mixed martial arts fighter to see that BJ Penn is a vastly superior fighter to Diego Sanchez at 155 lb and on a lb-for-lb rank. I don't have to be a camera engineer to notice which cameras take good pictures and which cameras take mediocre or lousy pictures. I don't have to be . . . you should get the point by now.
Yeah, I am told by US automakers that Cadillac/Buick/Lincoln is as good as the BMW cars or the Infiniti cars or the Lexus cars. I am told by US automakers that the Ford mid-priced cars are as good as Honda or Toyota's mid-priced cars. Then I drive them in the real world, I talk to real owners, and I notice BMW, Infiniti, and Lexus are superior to US luxury automakers. Even Acura is better than US luxury automakers. Same goes with mid-priced cars. Even Hyundai is starting to match or beat the once legendary US automakers. Lots of mainland Chinese actually dislike Japanese automakers a lot more than US automakers (political reasons), but even they admit Japanese cars are superior overall to US cars, so they drag their feet to Japanese auto dealers.
I know US cars are competitive (and lots of people tell me the same thing), but when talking about the best cars in China, Taiwan, America, and a few other nations, I hear BMW, Audi, Volkswagen, Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, and maybe Hyundai, Nissan/Infiniti, or Suzuki (in poorer nations). I only hear American cars if they are designed and made in foreign nations by foreigners.
Notice how foreign automakers do a phenomenal job of learning from their competitors, inventing on their own, and making cars for people around the world. US automakers were once like that, but now they are not. US automakers say to consumers, "You better like what we sell you, or you're un-American or you have bad standards." Haha, with at attitude like that, no wonder US automakers have fallen from the heavens.
Hyundai in the 1990s made lousy cars. Now its 2010 and Hyundai is competitive. Hyundai doesn't lead, but it's competitive, while China makes lousy cars. If China learns, adapts, and produces like Hyundai, China should be able to make competitive cars by 2020. If this trend continues, Hyundai will be amongst the top automakers in 2020, and China will be at the top in 2030. If revolutionary advances occur in regard to combustion engines or engines in general, then China could close the gap even quicker or slower.
Same goes with China's jet engines. China is acquiring foreign auto engines, foreign auto manufacturing plants, foreign jet engines, foreign jet manufacturing plants, etc. China is also developing their own technologies. China has been doing this for quite some time now.
If you read lots of international news, you'll find that lots of foreign competitors dislike how China is ambitiously acquiring foreign technology (legally and illegally), developing their own technology, and putting this all together. These foreign competitors have been doing the same exact thing as China is now doing, but deep down they fear a serious competitor, especially competitors from China.
By now, I thought China would be able to mass produce a last generation engine (WS10A, T:W ratio of ~8:1, reliable, etc.), but this doesn't seem to be the case. However, I could be wrong. There is evidence China prefers to buy affordable engines from Russia while developing superior engines. In the past, China was a lot more dependent on Russia or other nations for their military hardware, so China has made major improvements. China may lack the training, resources, tools, facilities, and experiences to mass produce mediocre engines while developing advance engines. I read China is in the process of greatly expanding their R&D funds for various purposes, especially for a full range of aircraft technologies.
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MastanKhan
Junior Member
Hi,
You completely missed what I was trying to say. But thanks for your time.
You completely missed what I was trying to say. But thanks for your time.
Infra_Man99
Banned Idiot
I think MastanKhan was saying US cars were intentionally made the way they are. It's not a matter of superior technology in R&D and manufacturing, but a matter of taste. If this is what you're saying, I disagree. Anyhow, both of us are off topic or focusing on the car analogy for way too long. Let's go back to the WS10A . . .
I read that Russia beat China for the Burma jet fighter deal for various reasons. Russia claims their MiG-29 was just better than China's cheap/shoddy jet fighters, but at least a few international users complain the MiG-29 is unreliable and most MiG-29 variants are outdated. I think China lost the deal even though it offered new JF-17/FC-1 at discounted prices because Russia informed Burma that China was having problems mass producing engines for the JF-17 and J-10 (which seems to be true for whatever reason).
I read that Russia beat China for the Burma jet fighter deal for various reasons. Russia claims their MiG-29 was just better than China's cheap/shoddy jet fighters, but at least a few international users complain the MiG-29 is unreliable and most MiG-29 variants are outdated. I think China lost the deal even though it offered new JF-17/FC-1 at discounted prices because Russia informed Burma that China was having problems mass producing engines for the JF-17 and J-10 (which seems to be true for whatever reason).
I would buy that, the JF-17 appears to have decent build quality from the photos I have seen.
Maybe it has nothing to do with quality or any technical issue. I think most people here are aware that some American envoys have been in Myanmar. The Americans claim it was not their idea, but rather, the Burmese leadership approached them. Some Western media even say that the Myanmar army's actions in Kokang took China completely by surprise, and that the audaciousness of the Burmese generals was somehow connected with this American contact. Of course, we can't know if any of this is true, but if it is, it would not surprise me at all if the Burmese air force is looking for suppliers other than China.
yeah, I don't think we actually know the detail of the deal. There is no chance J-10 would be offered to Burma for less than what they paid for Mig-29s. Therefore, JF-17 is more likely, but then they'd have the issue of finding domestic engine for JF-17 because it's competing against Mig-29s. That could be a major problem in JF-17 offer.