LOL the CIA would be making a fool out of themselves if they pull off a sabotage prank like that. What is shocking to see is what a superpower's decline could do to its domestic armament industries.sabotage by evil CIA
Chinese Engine Development
- Thread starter jackbh
- Start date
Agree - I don't think I ever disputed that aspect (it's not even the main point of the post I quoted) and stated as much in the J-20 thread. I'm just calling BS on the undies/quality-control problem in the Russian engines which doesn't sound like something you'd continue to rely on for single-engine jets long after the Flankers have made the switch. Somebody with a AL-31F-sized chip on his shoulder got carried away by the news when the banal truth is simply what you stated, I suspect.
I mean, it wouldn't say much for the level of reliability and quality control hitherto achieved in the WS-10 if true, right? Were they finding entire wardrobes inside those until recently or what?
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Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Via LKJ86 from Weixin
不过对于解放军而言，这个发动机型号的问题，某种程度上还更加麻烦。中国不仅有历年来引进的多种型号的AL-31F系列发动机，还有自行研制的涡扇-10“太行”系列涡扇发动机，未来还有更加先进的涡扇-15发动机，以至于解放军同时使用的涡扇发动机种类也许更多：苏-27SK/UBK、苏-30MKK、歼-11战机使用的是AL-31F；歼-10A/S使用的是AL-31FN；歼-10B/C使用的是应用AL-31F M1升级技术的FN；歼-15目前使用的是AL-31F3；苏-35使用的是AL-41F-1S；歼-11B/BS目前使用的是涡扇-10A；歼-16使用的是涡扇-10B；歼-20目前量产的型号使用的是中国改造过的AL-31F，即将量产的型号使用的是“太行”发动机（具体型号和其他战机不同），未来还计划装备涡扇-15发动机；而歼-10C及其后续发展型号也要使用机匣下置的“太行”发动机型号……
▲ 歼-20一个型号未来可能要有三种不同发动机的亚型同时服役
这还没算上如果国产矢量喷口投入使用之后衍生出来的其他型号。显然对于解放军来说，简化发动机型号和种类的必要性甚至比俄罗斯更加迫切一些。尽管这种局面的出现和我国在21世纪初航空工业在动力领域两条腿走路的局面有关，在当时也确实是有其合理性和必要性的选择，但在国产航发的性能水平不断提升，可靠性逐渐赶上，产能产量也进一步扩大的今天，使用国产发动机来适度简化解放军机队的发动机型号，改善和减小机务部门面对多种机型时的保障压力，也许会成为一件值得认真考虑的事情。
Google translate
However, for the People's Liberation Army, the problem with this engine model is somewhat more troublesome. China has not only the various models of AL-31F series engines introduced over the years, but also the self-developed turbofan-10 "Taihang" series turbofan engines. In the future, there will be more advanced turbofan-15 engines, so that the PLA can simultaneously There may be more types of turbofan engines: Su-27SK/UBK, Su-30MKK, J-11 fighters use AL-31F; 歼-10A/S use AL-31FN; 歼-10B/C It is FN using AL-31F M1 upgrade technology; 歼-15 is currently using AL-31F3; Su-35 is using AL-41F-1S; 歼-11B/BS is currently using turbofan-10A; 歼- 16 uses the turbofan-10B; the current model of the 歼-20 is the modified AL-31F in China, and the model to be mass-produced is the "Taihang" engine (the specific model is different from other fighters), the future It is also planned to be equipped with a turbofan-15 engine; the 歼-10C and its subsequent development models also use the "Taihang" engine model under the machine...
▲ 歼-20 One model may have three subtypes of different engines in the future.
This is not counting other models that were derived after the domestic vector nozzles were put into use. Obviously, for the PLA, the need to simplify engine models and types is even more urgent than Russia. Although the emergence of this situation is related to the situation in which the aviation industry walked on the two legs in the power field in the early 21st century, it did have its rationality and necessity at that time, but the performance level of domestic aviation has been continuously improved. Today, the reliability is gradually catching up, and the production capacity is further expanding. Today, the use of domestic engines to moderately simplify the engine model of the PLA fleet, improve and reduce the pressure on the maintenance of the various parts of the aircraft department, may become a piece of Things that deserve serious consideration.
不过对于解放军而言，这个发动机型号的问题，某种程度上还更加麻烦。中国不仅有历年来引进的多种型号的AL-31F系列发动机，还有自行研制的涡扇-10“太行”系列涡扇发动机，未来还有更加先进的涡扇-15发动机，以至于解放军同时使用的涡扇发动机种类也许更多：苏-27SK/UBK、苏-30MKK、歼-11战机使用的是AL-31F；歼-10A/S使用的是AL-31FN；歼-10B/C使用的是应用AL-31F M1升级技术的FN；歼-15目前使用的是AL-31F3；苏-35使用的是AL-41F-1S；歼-11B/BS目前使用的是涡扇-10A；歼-16使用的是涡扇-10B；歼-20目前量产的型号使用的是中国改造过的AL-31F，即将量产的型号使用的是“太行”发动机（具体型号和其他战机不同），未来还计划装备涡扇-15发动机；而歼-10C及其后续发展型号也要使用机匣下置的“太行”发动机型号……
▲ 歼-20一个型号未来可能要有三种不同发动机的亚型同时服役
这还没算上如果国产矢量喷口投入使用之后衍生出来的其他型号。显然对于解放军来说，简化发动机型号和种类的必要性甚至比俄罗斯更加迫切一些。尽管这种局面的出现和我国在21世纪初航空工业在动力领域两条腿走路的局面有关，在当时也确实是有其合理性和必要性的选择，但在国产航发的性能水平不断提升，可靠性逐渐赶上，产能产量也进一步扩大的今天，使用国产发动机来适度简化解放军机队的发动机型号，改善和减小机务部门面对多种机型时的保障压力，也许会成为一件值得认真考虑的事情。
Google translate
However, for the People's Liberation Army, the problem with this engine model is somewhat more troublesome. China has not only the various models of AL-31F series engines introduced over the years, but also the self-developed turbofan-10 "Taihang" series turbofan engines. In the future, there will be more advanced turbofan-15 engines, so that the PLA can simultaneously There may be more types of turbofan engines: Su-27SK/UBK, Su-30MKK, J-11 fighters use AL-31F; 歼-10A/S use AL-31FN; 歼-10B/C It is FN using AL-31F M1 upgrade technology; 歼-15 is currently using AL-31F3; Su-35 is using AL-41F-1S; 歼-11B/BS is currently using turbofan-10A; 歼- 16 uses the turbofan-10B; the current model of the 歼-20 is the modified AL-31F in China, and the model to be mass-produced is the "Taihang" engine (the specific model is different from other fighters), the future It is also planned to be equipped with a turbofan-15 engine; the 歼-10C and its subsequent development models also use the "Taihang" engine model under the machine...
▲ 歼-20 One model may have three subtypes of different engines in the future.
This is not counting other models that were derived after the domestic vector nozzles were put into use. Obviously, for the PLA, the need to simplify engine models and types is even more urgent than Russia. Although the emergence of this situation is related to the situation in which the aviation industry walked on the two legs in the power field in the early 21st century, it did have its rationality and necessity at that time, but the performance level of domestic aviation has been continuously improved. Today, the reliability is gradually catching up, and the production capacity is further expanding. Today, the use of domestic engines to moderately simplify the engine model of the PLA fleet, improve and reduce the pressure on the maintenance of the various parts of the aircraft department, may become a piece of Things that deserve serious consideration.
We've known for a while that the J-20 uses a AL-31 engine with Chinese modifications to boost thrust.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Well the news is that they will put into mass production a new version of WS 10 for J20 and J10 Not the AL31 old engine
Hyperwarp
Captain
Any idea about the boost figures? Does the boost apply to both afterburner and dry thrust or just afterburner?
We’ve known that since early August as well.
I think it's hard to believe that China is capable of improving a foreign engine with the state of their engine expertise.
J-20 is mostlikely powered by the M2 variant.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
This has already happened before. The original Russian AL-31 that was sold to China was rated for a 900 hour lifespan but the Chinese improved it to 1,500 hours and this was done with the knowledge that was available close to a decade ago.
But this is the first time I've heard that J-20 used a Chinese-upgraded AL-31 variant; I also thought the engine was FM2. I've not heard otherwise on whether or not they modified it.
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What’s been matured in R&D doesn’t always show up in production. Lots of evidence these days indicating that China’s R&D pipeline for gas turbines is thick. There’s lead time delay before we see that manifest in new products though, and in the mean time it’s quicker to use that R&D stockpile to make revisions to old designs.