Chinese Engine Development

no_name said:

The top of that pic is cropped:

So this news is already out by maybe end of 2011 early 2012.

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if you just look at title the image you posted, it said Dawn of 2011 celebration. I guess it's around CNY time 2011, given the typical CNY fonts. So early 2011.

Engineer said:

Of course there is no reason to believe, since China will certainly going to have the edge in avionics. China has already achieved parities with Western fighters on many fronts in such area, and we can see evidences of them on China's High-New series aircraft.

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I'm not sure about that. I find it rather unlikely that the Chinese (or any other country) will trump the F-35's avionics in the next few years when you consider the amount of experience that the US companies have with AESA technology. Also remember that the software is what really gives the avionics their capabilities, and right now, I don't feel that China has the experience to match the US in this regard. Make no mistake, the progress of the Chinese is pretty amazing in the past years, but they still have a ways to go to fully catch up with the US, and in some cases, nothing can truly substitute experience.

RadDisconnect said:

I'm not sure about that. I find it rather unlikely that the Chinese (or any other country) will trump the F-35's avionics in the next few years when you consider the amount of experience that the US companies have with AESA technology. Also remember that the software is what really gives the avionics their capabilities, and right now, I don't feel that China has the experience to match the US in this regard. Make no mistake, the progress of the Chinese is pretty amazing in the past years, but they still have a ways to go to fully catch up with the US, and in some cases, nothing can truly substitute experience.

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Depends on what we mean by software. In terms of industrial and computation heavy software, I don't think China is very behind at all. They're sending out all these PhDs in electrical engineering and computer science abroad for a reason. It's a different story in terms of consumer software, where understanding the requirements and design needs of consumers is much more important than the raw capability of the software. Capability in those two areas are not the same, and avionics is much more (if not completely) about the former than the latter.

With regards to hardware, again they're turning out a lot of EE and CS PhDs abroad. Furthermore, I suspect that the ability to study market available silicon and broader espionage efforts are playing a large role in how far along China gets. I would say that those two factors combined almost guarantee parity within the next decade, if it hasn't happened already.

Re: J-20 The New Generation Fighter Thread IV

We talk about engines a LOT here but I think it may be better if we all use the same nomenclature so everyone knows what we're refering to. Generally speaking we talk about the nozzles which consist of the flaps/petals. It's better we call them as they are instead of refering to them as 'some silver thingie' or 'sawtooth part' for the actuator housing or mixer etc.

I've included generic pictures of the typical afterburning turbofan to brush up on your engine terminologies

Afterall we're a professional forum right?








Mod feel free to move this to another thread if deem necessary.

Re: J-20 The New Generation Fighter Thread IV

kwaigonegin said:

We talk about engines a LOT here but I think it may be better if we all use the same nomenclature so everyone knows what we're refering to. Generally speaking we talk about the nozzles which consist of the flaps/petals. It's better we call them as they are instead of refering to them as 'some silver thingie' or 'sawtooth part' for the actuator housing or mixer etc.

I've included generic pictures of the typical afterburning turbofan to brush up on your engine terminologies

Afterall we're a professional forum right?

Mod feel free to move this to another thread if deem necessary.

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I think the problem is that with some engines the nozzle and nozzle fairing can be hard to distinguish.

Re: J-20 The New Generation Fighter Thread IV

latenlazy said:

I think the problem is that with some engines the nozzle and nozzle fairing can be hard to distinguish.

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That's why I posted those pictures my friend. turbofans on fighters we usually discuss here has no 'nozzle fairing' (that alone is a very confusing term to use). There are just nozzles and then there are the flaps.

It's better to discuss engines from a standpoint of the different sections. you have the cold section and the hot section past the compressor blades. within each section you have the conbustion chambers, the turbines and the nozzle section which consists of flap and actuators. There are also hot flaps and cold flaps.

Re: J-20 The New Generation Fighter Thread IV

kwaigonegin said:

That's why I posted those pictures my friend. turbofans on fighters we usually discuss here has no 'nozzle fairing' (that alone is a very confusing term to use). There are just nozzles and then there are the flaps.

It's better to discuss engines from a standpoint of the different sections. you have the cold section and the hot section past the compressor blades. within each section you have the conbustion chambers, the turbines and the nozzle section which consists of flap and actuators. There are also hot flaps and cold flaps.

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Gotcha. Maybe separate nozzles from nozzle petals.

WS-20???

siegecrossbow said:

WS-20???

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Looks like the right color scheme for the Il-76 engine test bed.

i've no idea if it's pertinent, but rolls' trent 1000 engine first flew on a testbed aircraft in 2007. first commercial use of serial production article on a plane was in 2011. While ws20 development may not follow those milestones at all, i do believe it is possible that production standardized y20 flies with ws20 by 2017 or 2018. Basically, it may be possible that all but the prototypes and some preproduction batch y20 fly with domestic engines. that is, IF testing and development goes fairly well.