Chinese Engine Development

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TyroneG

Banned Idiot
Pmichael said:
Of course, it's a test of the Chinese aerospace industry if they are able to develope, produce and maintain a state-of-the-art engine for the own next-gen fighter.

There is no excuse if the first batch of J-20s fighters flying with Russian engines.
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People are saying WS15 is in development. Well who knows what that mean. And who know how long it takes. It doesn't mean much at this point

If the first batch of J20 still using Russian Engine is "major disappointment" to say the least and there's no other ways to sweeten it. And Supercruise is not even a requirement at initial stage and if China still can't pull it off then there's no excuse to it.

Even the Hongkong and Taiwan media commented the J20 project is fake (face project) due to its inability to get its own engine.
 
H

Hytenxic

New Member
TyroneG said:
People are saying WS15 is in development. Well who knows what that mean. And who know how long it takes. It doesn't mean much at this point

If the first batch of J20 still using Russian Engine is "major disappointment" to say the least and there's no other ways to sweeten it. And Supercruise is not even a requirement at initial stage and if China still can't pull it off then there's no excuse to it.

Even the Hongkong and Taiwan media commented the J20 project is fake (face project) due to its inability to get its own engine.
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I much rather have the J-20s flying, testing and evaluating even with the Russia engines than sitting in warehouses waiting for the better engines for the "first batch".

Face project lol. Makes me ashamed to be from HK. -Facepalm-
 
T

TyroneG

Banned Idiot
Hytenxic said:
I much rather have the J-20s flying, testing and evaluating even with the Russia engines than sitting in warehouses waiting for the better engines for the "first batch".

Face project lol. Makes me ashamed to be from HK. -Facepalm-
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First batch is when it's operational, couple yrs from now.
Couple yrs from now, if its flying Russian engines, then its not something to be proud of.
 
P

Preux

Junior Member
TyroneG said:
First batch is when it's operational, couple yrs from now.
Couple yrs from now, if its flying Russian engines, then its not something to be proud of.
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Right, because Chinese national defence is about pride of some random bloke on the net who probably doesn't even hold a Chinese passport, as opposed to, you know, national defence.

Anyway, you say 'Hongkong and Taiwan media' saying bad things about China as if that proves anything, like they are hugely defensive about China and won't say a bad word without overwhelming evidence.

As opposed to the planet from which I hail, where your average Taiwan and Hong Kong media outlet cannot wait to positively purr at any conceivable sign of weakness from China.
 
P

Pmichael

Junior Member
Who cares about internet boards and random news sites?

Using underpowered Russian engines would lead to a worse aircraft and it does prove that the Chinese aerospace industry is still many years behind the big players.
 
T

TyroneG

Banned Idiot
Pmichael said:
Who cares about internet boards and random news sites?

Using underpowered Russian engines would lead to a worse aircraft and it does prove that the Chinese aerospace industry is still many years behind the big players.
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Yup, it's like driving a brand new shiny, latest looking Mercedez but with Yugo engine inside.

Right now, there are so many of the new plane projects going on, like J20, J31, Y20, J15, J10B they are all using Russian engines.
I think those projects are nothing more than getting funding from PLAN. They are fake projects to make a living.

China should put a stop to those. Put out the new motto "No Domestic Engine, No more new Plane"
I don't buy those domestic engines are work in progress type of propaganda. They have to show it they are ready.

That should crack down on those bogus,rampant fund raising oriented projects. You see all those different regions like chengdu, shenyang, xian, all trying carve out as large pierce cake from PLA funding. They want spin out their stuffs as quick as possible.
That's type of mindset I don't like. Very similar to what going on consumer market, People slapped some foreign components inside and put on a nice cover and ready to sell in market. The quicky way to make a few bucks.

This type of mentality is rampant in China, it's almost ingrained.
 
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kwaigonegin

kwaigonegin

Colonel
TyroneG said:
Yup, it's like driving a brand new shiny, latest looking Mercedez but with Yugo engine inside.
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I think you and Pmichael are stating the obvious however we have to give credit where credit is due. The Chinese turbofan industry has made leaps and bounds in the past decade. Of course they are not where PW, RR, GE who have been doing business for a 100 years or more are however I think given time, they will bridge that gap sooner than later. If you think about it there are literally only a small handful of companies in the world that can make advance turbofans.

The materials science, the tolerances, the manufacturing, testing etc involved are incredibly complex. I know because I used to work for GE (though not GE Aircraft Engines) but I know enough about their lean sigma programs and methodologies applied in that particular business division.
 
T

TyroneG

Banned Idiot
kwaigonegin said:
I think you and Pmichael are stating the obvious however we have to give credit where credit is due. The Chinese turbofan industry has made leaps and bounds in the past decade. Of course they are not where PW, RR, GE who have been doing business for a 100 years or more are however I think given time, they will bridge that gap sooner than later. If you think about it there are literally only a small handful of companies in the world that can make advance turbofans.

The materials science, the tolerances, the manufacturing, testing etc involved are incredibly complex. I know because I used to work for GE (though not GE Aircraft Engines) but I know enough about their lean sigma programs and methodologies applied in that particular business division.
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The problem would be China take a step forward then maybe couple steps backward.

They made progress on WS10A , but does that translate they can learn that experience and move forward?

That's where become questionable. If initial WS15(minus super cruise ) not ready in 2 yrs to fit into J20 then more likely they running in circle if not taking step backward. They already leaking the word out the J20 deployment will be based on Russian Engines a few yrs from now. That shows they have no confidence in their WS15 development. I am not talking now, but a few yrs from now

Then whatever they learned from WS10A is rather insignificant because it's untranslatable to something more advanced.
 
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T

TyroneG

Banned Idiot
There is a clear "Fear Factor" within China aerospace industry. Let just say there is lack of CONFIDENCE on its domestic engines now and the immediate future. The "body languages" says it all.

If they fear the plane would crashed, people die and lose of "face" then do a lot of UAVs with WS10B, WS13, WS15. They have to be widely used in order to test its limit and reliability.


Bottom line they have to get their confidence up. Right now, I see None.
 
Equation

Equation

Lieutenant General
TyroneG said:
Yup, it's like driving a brand new shiny, latest looking Mercedez but with Yugo engine inside.

Right now, there are so many of the new plane projects going on, like J20, J31, Y20, J15, J10B they are all using Russian engines.
I think those projects are nothing more than getting funding from PLAN. They are fake projects to make a living.

China should put a stop to those. Put out the new motto "No Domestic Engine, No more new Plane"
I don't buy those domestic engines are work in progress type of propaganda. They have to show it they are ready.

That should crack down on those bogus,rampant fund raising oriented projects. You see all those different regions like chengdu, shenyang, xian, all trying carve out as large pierce cake from PLA funding. They want spin out their stuffs as quick as possible.
That's type of mindset I don't like. Very similar to what going on consumer market, People slapped some foreign components inside and put on a nice cover and ready to sell in market. The quicky way to make a few bucks.

This type of mentality is rampant in China, it's almost ingrained.
Click to expand...

No that's the troll mind set of the anti China progress crowd watching every single development that's going on. Like I said before it's all about the program. Right now China has the people, the funding, the scientist, the engineering, the will, and the know how to do whatever scientific ventures they want and engine is one of them. Chinese program is developing far better than any other Asian nation.
 
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