Chinese Engine Development

MiG-29

Banned Idiot
Chinese delegation sent to Russia to discuss stealth fighter engine

A Russian Saturn AL-31 engine (Internet Photo)

A Chinese delegation was last month sent to the plant of the Moscow Machine-building Production Association, a Russian engine manufacturer also known as Salyut or Salut, to discuss cooperation on the development of the engine for the Chengdu J-20, China’s first stealth fighter, the Hong Kong-based Wen Wei Po reported on Nov. 11.

The visit of the Chinese delegation was first reported on Salyut’s official website on Oct. 31. The delegation was led by Xu Qiliang, the vice chairman of the Central Military Commission of the Communist Party of China, according to the company’s website, and was accompanied by Sergey Shoigu, Russia’s defense minister. Vladislav Masalov, the general director of Salyut, stressed the importance of Russia’s cooperation with China in developing the new aircraft engine.

With the permission of the Russian government, Xu and his delegation was allowed to visit Salyut’s workshop, engine testing facility, production line and museum. Back in 2005, representatives from Beijing signed a contract worth US$300 million with Salyut to purchase 100 AL-31FN engines. It was the largest sale for Rosoboronexport, the state intermediary agency for Russia’s exports/imports of defense-related and dual use products, technologies and services, in 2005. By 2006, another contract was signed between Salyut and Shenyang Liming Aero-Engine Group Corporation to produce engines for Chinese aircraft.

As the Chengdu J-20 does not as yet have an adequate engine, it is believed by many experts in Russia that the fighter is likely to be equipped with the more advanced AL-31FM1. Wen Wei Po said that through investing with Russia in an engine plant, China will eventually gain the know-how it needs to design its own high-performance engines in the future. In turn, the trade and investments will help Russia’s economy.

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31.10.2013

FSUE “Gas-Turbine Engineering RPC “Salut” receives a visit from Colonel-General Xu Qiliang, Vice-Chairman of the CPC Central Military Commission.
On October 31, 2013, the high dignitary from the PRC heading an official delegation, invited by Sergey Shoygu, Russian Defense Minister, visited Salut - one of Russia's largest aircraft engine manufacturer and supplier for a number of foreign customers, including China.

During the red carpet reception, Vladislav Masalov, Director General of Salut, emphasized in his speech the importance of cooperation with the PRC in aeroengine-building projects.

Colonel-General Xu Qiliang in his turn expressed the willingness to use best efforts toward ensuring that this cooperation be continued on a long-term and mutually beneficial basis.

The Chinese guests made an acquaintance tour of the factory visiting its production workshops, engine test facilities and assembly lines, as well as the Museum of Corporate History, where they were offered an overview of Salut's long-standing traditions and corporate values.

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thunderchief

Senior Member
As the Chengdu J-20 does not as yet have an adequate engine, it is believed by many experts in Russia that the fighter is likely to be equipped with the more advanced AL-31FM1. Wen Wei Po said that through investing with Russia in an engine plant, China will eventually gain the know-how it needs to design its own high-performance engines in the future. In turn, the trade and investments will help Russia’s economy.

Well , AL-31FM1 is weaker then 117S , but without purchasing you_know_what ;) I guess it is best thing China could get from Russians . AL-31FM1 should be roughly comparable to WS-10B now in development .
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Chinese delegation sent to Russia to discuss stealth fighter engine

A Russian Saturn AL-31 engine (Internet Photo)

A Chinese delegation was last month sent to the plant of the Moscow Machine-building Production Association, a Russian engine manufacturer also known as Salyut or Salut, to discuss cooperation on the development of the engine for the Chengdu J-20, China’s first stealth fighter, the Hong Kong-based Wen Wei Po reported on Nov. 11.

The visit of the Chinese delegation was first reported on Salyut’s official website on Oct. 31. The delegation was led by Xu Qiliang, the vice chairman of the Central Military Commission of the Communist Party of China, according to the company’s website, and was accompanied by Sergey Shoigu, Russia’s defense minister. Vladislav Masalov, the general director of Salyut, stressed the importance of Russia’s cooperation with China in developing the new aircraft engine.

With the permission of the Russian government, Xu and his delegation was allowed to visit Salyut’s workshop, engine testing facility, production line and museum. Back in 2005, representatives from Beijing signed a contract worth US$300 million with Salyut to purchase 100 AL-31FN engines. It was the largest sale for Rosoboronexport, the state intermediary agency for Russia’s exports/imports of defense-related and dual use products, technologies and services, in 2005. By 2006, another contract was signed between Salyut and Shenyang Liming Aero-Engine Group Corporation to produce engines for Chinese aircraft.

As the Chengdu J-20 does not as yet have an adequate engine, it is believed by many experts in Russia that the fighter is likely to be equipped with the more advanced AL-31FM1. Wen Wei Po said that through investing with Russia in an engine plant, China will eventually gain the know-how it needs to design its own high-performance engines in the future. In turn, the trade and investments will help Russia’s economy.

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31.10.2013

FSUE “Gas-Turbine Engineering RPC “Salut” receives a visit from Colonel-General Xu Qiliang, Vice-Chairman of the CPC Central Military Commission.
On October 31, 2013, the high dignitary from the PRC heading an official delegation, invited by Sergey Shoygu, Russian Defense Minister, visited Salut - one of Russia's largest aircraft engine manufacturer and supplier for a number of foreign customers, including China.

During the red carpet reception, Vladislav Masalov, Director General of Salut, emphasized in his speech the importance of cooperation with the PRC in aeroengine-building projects.

Colonel-General Xu Qiliang in his turn expressed the willingness to use best efforts toward ensuring that this cooperation be continued on a long-term and mutually beneficial basis.

The Chinese guests made an acquaintance tour of the factory visiting its production workshops, engine test facilities and assembly lines, as well as the Museum of Corporate History, where they were offered an overview of Salut's long-standing traditions and corporate values.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

What we have here is a press release that says much less than the reporting. The press release simply suggests that there was a visit, which could be about anything, including a study of manufacturing and assembly techniques and equipment/machinery, or perhaps organizational culture. The reporting then speculates that it has to do specifically with buying engines, which is not only unsubstantiated by the press release, but has no sources backing it up.
 
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AeroEngineer

Junior Member
Chinese delegation sent to Russia to discuss stealth fighter engine

A Russian Saturn AL-31 engine (Internet Photo)

A Chinese delegation was last month sent to the plant of the Moscow Machine-building Production Association, a Russian engine manufacturer also known as Salyut or Salut, to discuss cooperation on the development of the engine for the Chengdu J-20, China’s first stealth fighter, the Hong Kong-based Wen Wei Po reported on Nov. 11.

The visit of the Chinese delegation was first reported on Salyut’s official website on Oct. 31. The delegation was led by Xu Qiliang, the vice chairman of the Central Military Commission of the Communist Party of China, according to the company’s website, and was accompanied by Sergey Shoigu, Russia’s defense minister. Vladislav Masalov, the general director of Salyut, stressed the importance of Russia’s cooperation with China in developing the new aircraft engine.

With the permission of the Russian government, Xu and his delegation was allowed to visit Salyut’s workshop, engine testing facility, production line and museum. Back in 2005, representatives from Beijing signed a contract worth US$300 million with Salyut to purchase 100 AL-31FN engines. It was the largest sale for Rosoboronexport, the state intermediary agency for Russia’s exports/imports of defense-related and dual use products, technologies and services, in 2005. By 2006, another contract was signed between Salyut and Shenyang Liming Aero-Engine Group Corporation to produce engines for Chinese aircraft.

As the Chengdu J-20 does not as yet have an adequate engine, it is believed by many experts in Russia that the fighter is likely to be equipped with the more advanced AL-31FM1. Wen Wei Po said that through investing with Russia in an engine plant, China will eventually gain the know-how it needs to design its own high-performance engines in the future. In turn, the trade and investments will help Russia’s economy.

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31.10.2013

FSUE “Gas-Turbine Engineering RPC “Salut” receives a visit from Colonel-General Xu Qiliang, Vice-Chairman of the CPC Central Military Commission.
On October 31, 2013, the high dignitary from the PRC heading an official delegation, invited by Sergey Shoygu, Russian Defense Minister, visited Salut - one of Russia's largest aircraft engine manufacturer and supplier for a number of foreign customers, including China.

During the red carpet reception, Vladislav Masalov, Director General of Salut, emphasized in his speech the importance of cooperation with the PRC in aeroengine-building projects.

Colonel-General Xu Qiliang in his turn expressed the willingness to use best efforts toward ensuring that this cooperation be continued on a long-term and mutually beneficial basis.

The Chinese guests made an acquaintance tour of the factory visiting its production workshops, engine test facilities and assembly lines, as well as the Museum of Corporate History, where they were offered an overview of Salut's long-standing traditions and corporate values.

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I have said it many times before, the J-20A will use AL-31FM1 NOT the 117S. This also means that the Su-35 deal is now highly unlikely, because ever1 knows that the only reason China is willing to buy the Su-35 is to get the 117S to equip the J-20A, but now they have chosen the AL-31FM1 !!!

Also remember China visited Salyut not the Saturn. Salyut make the AL-31FM1 and is developing the AL-31FM2, while Saturn make 117S and 117.

This further confirms that J-20A will use AL-31FM1 or FM2, NOT 117S !!

What does this tell you about the Su-35 deal ?
 
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AeroEngineer

Junior Member
Well , AL-31FM1 is weaker then 117S , but without purchasing you_know_what ;) I guess it is best thing China could get from Russians . AL-31FM1 should be roughly comparable to WS-10B now in development .


WS-10B is just as good as the AL-31FM1, but it is not in full production yet. In 2014, WS-10B will equip the J-15, J-16, and even the J-10B and after several years maybe the J-20A as well.

AL-31FM1 is an option and a backup for the J-20A.

Also, by 2015 when WS-10B reach the maturity of the AL-31FM1, Russia will be forced to sell the 117S without attaching the Su-35, because by then, China will not order more AL-31FM1 because WS-10B already reached the maturity and performance level !
 

MiG-29

Banned Idiot
What we have here is a press release that says much less than the reporting. The press release simply suggests that there was a visit, which could be about anything, including a study of manufacturing and assembly techniques and equipment/machinery, or perhaps organizational culture. The reporting then speculates that it has to do specifically with buying engines, which is not only unsubstantiated by the press release, but has no sources backing it up.
They are two reports, one is from a page that claims a Hong kong based report claims they want Russian engines for J-20, the other is official by Salut, it only stresses the Chinese General visited Salut and the Chinese and Russians want to cooperate in aeroengines they do not mention what engines, true, however go to the page of products

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and you will find what today saluts makes, that will give you and idea if the first report is just a guess but Salyut currently has the Al-31 M1 and the AI-222-25 and AI-222-28 engines for military applications since the Chinese sent a General you guess is unlikely they want The D-436T1/TP/148 engine is intended for short and medium-haul airliners such as Tu-334, Be-200, An-148 and others. The D-436T1/TP/148 engine is a further modification of the D36 engine with enhanced thrust and improved economy, the rest is up to your imagination

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Skywatcher

Captain
The D-436T1/TP/148 engine is intended for short and medium-haul airliners such as Tu-334, Be-200, An-148 and others. The D-436T1/TP/148 engine is a further modification of the D36 engine with enhanced thrust and improved economy, the rest is up to your imagination

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Well, gee, it's not like China doesn't have any subsonic military aircraft, manned or unmanned. :eek:
 

SinoSoldier

Colonel
They are two reports, one is from a page that claims a Hong kong based report claims they want Russian engines for J-20, the other is official by Salut, it only stresses the Chinese General visited Salut and the Chinese and Russians want to cooperate in aeroengines they do not mention what engines, true, however go to the page of products

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and you will find what today saluts makes, that will give you and idea if the first report is just a guess but Salyut currently has the Al-31 M1 and the AI-222-25 and AI-222-28 engines for military applications since the Chinese sent a General you guess is unlikely they want The D-436T1/TP/148 engine is intended for short and medium-haul airliners such as Tu-334, Be-200, An-148 and others. The D-436T1/TP/148 engine is a further modification of the D36 engine with enhanced thrust and improved economy, the rest is up to your imagination

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Judging from the status of the Chinese military industry and the historical ineptness of those media networks' reporting abilities, it is more plausible that they saw the report from Salut and concocted the other details from their own theories in order to make the story sound attractive.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
They are two reports, one is from a page that claims a Hong kong based report claims they want Russian engines for J-20, the other is official by Salut, it only stresses the Chinese General visited Salut and the Chinese and Russians want to cooperate in aeroengines they do not mention what engines, true, however go to the page of products

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and you will find what today saluts makes, that will give you and idea if the first report is just a guess but Salyut currently has the Al-31 M1 and the AI-222-25 and AI-222-28 engines for military applications since the Chinese sent a General you guess is unlikely they want The D-436T1/TP/148 engine is intended for short and medium-haul airliners such as Tu-334, Be-200, An-148 and others. The D-436T1/TP/148 engine is a further modification of the D36 engine with enhanced thrust and improved economy, the rest is up to your imagination

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Salyut making a certain product still does not substantiate that someone is visiting out of an interest for that product, hence speculation.
 

thunderchief

Senior Member
Salyut making a certain product still does not substantiate that someone is visiting out of an interest for that product, hence speculation.

Well , I somehow doubt that senior Chinese delegation , accompanied with Russian defense minister , was in a simple tourist visit ;) On the other hand , as MiG-29 pointed out , we all know what Salyut makes ...


WS-10B is just as good as the AL-31FM1, but it is not in full production yet. In 2014, WS-10B will equip the J-15, J-16, and even the J-10B and after several years maybe the J-20A as well.

AL-31FM1 is an option and a backup for the J-20A.

Also, by 2015 when WS-10B reach the maturity of the AL-31FM1, Russia will be forced to sell the 117S without attaching the Su-35, because by then, China will not order more AL-31FM1 because WS-10B already reached the maturity and performance level !

Well , AL-31FM1 and WS-10B are fourth-gen engines , and they may be good enough for 4.5 gen planes like Su-30MS or J-11B , but J-20 would be definitely underpowered with them . Real target of this visit could be AL-31FM2 which is still in development and a bit in limbo , because currently there is no market for it . Therefore , deal could be - we will buy certain amount of M1s in order to gain access to M2 when it is available .
 
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