Chinese Engine Development
- Thread starter jackbh
- Start date
China has choosen independence and that's a grave sin and therefore China has become a rival.
Quickie
Colonel
Come on, it's all mostly about politics, trade secrets, competition. I don't think U.S. or any of the western countries would have a joint venture to manufacture advanced jet engines with Russia or Ukraine. Even in joint ventures, companies would find ways to keep trade secrets by packaging advanced technologies in a black box in the form of modules to be assembled/installed at the assembly line.
Guys... could we not fall into the trap by our friend Mig-29? Look at all his posts... it is all about Chinese product inferior to western, to Russian and now to Mexico. Look at his posts about Chinese copying other people's product while the Mexican, Indians, Russian and whoever create their own products, (it was like... when the chinese created the WS-10A, he was like... nah... it was a copy of AL-31. When the Chinese had the J-11B, he was like... nah... it was a copy of the Su-27. When the Chinese put carnards on their aircraft, he was like TVC and LERX is better. And he came back... again and again and again and again despite being shot down so many times by our learned forumers here, but whenever there is a crack, he would come back in... and stirred up emotions within an otherwise great topic).
You see the pattern here (first it was Russia, now it was Mexico and India)? He had been the one that always stirred up national prides between nations... and look at all the of our good members posts in respond to that... and there are times when some are pretty emotional... and fallen into the trap of saying a nation is way ahead of another... which is never the case.
Each nation goes through in their own ways, some decided the best for their nation was to innovate and to create. Others think that it would be better to work with other more established companies to provide for their needs like aircraft engines, airframes etc, some even become the world's factory in whatever systems for various reasons... there are no which way is better. One would be most childish, immature and whatever to believe that, I would believe that for any great nation to succeed, their leader would have to look not only into one aspect of their nation, then compare that aspect with other nations, then came back and say, "Well... ours don't work, we need to copy whatever other are doing." I think they will looked into the history, the culture, the geography, the people and their neighbors to get a full picture, then from there they work up a policy that work best for the nation. Same goes for technology.
While believing only in a couple of salesman brouchers, so-call designers from some companies, and online hearsay then discount a nation totally and branding that nation as the evil IP breaker, copier of other's hardwork is nothing but childish, misinformed, arrogant and simply disgusting animals... (pardon for my language, I normally don't talk this way... but it is really getting on my nerves of all the misinformation that had been circulating in this forum... seriously not like any we have seen anymore in the past.)
You see the pattern here (first it was Russia, now it was Mexico and India)? He had been the one that always stirred up national prides between nations... and look at all the of our good members posts in respond to that... and there are times when some are pretty emotional... and fallen into the trap of saying a nation is way ahead of another... which is never the case.
Each nation goes through in their own ways, some decided the best for their nation was to innovate and to create. Others think that it would be better to work with other more established companies to provide for their needs like aircraft engines, airframes etc, some even become the world's factory in whatever systems for various reasons... there are no which way is better. One would be most childish, immature and whatever to believe that, I would believe that for any great nation to succeed, their leader would have to look not only into one aspect of their nation, then compare that aspect with other nations, then came back and say, "Well... ours don't work, we need to copy whatever other are doing." I think they will looked into the history, the culture, the geography, the people and their neighbors to get a full picture, then from there they work up a policy that work best for the nation. Same goes for technology.
While believing only in a couple of salesman brouchers, so-call designers from some companies, and online hearsay then discount a nation totally and branding that nation as the evil IP breaker, copier of other's hardwork is nothing but childish, misinformed, arrogant and simply disgusting animals... (pardon for my language, I normally don't talk this way... but it is really getting on my nerves of all the misinformation that had been circulating in this forum... seriously not like any we have seen anymore in the past.)
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Engineer
Major
Copying takes skills, a lot of skills. It's not that India doesn't want to indigenize imported equipments, it's that they have no means to. Even when there are foreign engineers holding Indian engineers' hand all the way, Indian still screws up.
The fact that Russians are so fearful of Chinese copying is a good sign. It proves that China already has the same capabilities as Russia, if not already exceeded Russia.
Engineer
Major
Actually, the reason why countries like Mexico is included into Western engine program is not that Mexico doesn't steal. The reason is that Mexico isn't technological advanced enough to have the capability to steal. Even if the full technical documentation of an engine is given to Mexico, the country wouldn't have the capability to build one. That's the reality.
China isn't included in such projects because deep down, the West knows China is very capable. Thus, the way for the West to stay ahead is not so much by innovating, but by throwing as much obstacles in front of China as possible.
Engineer
Major
Nope. What China is doing is simply operating under a free market principle. Under this principle, organizations that are the most efficient are the most successful. For example, if organization A designs and builds a product, and organization B found ways to make that product cheaper, then it is a fair game that organization B can sell their innovation and become successful. In other words, it is survival of the fittest. The consumers benefit from this as well.
Countries and companies that complain about China are trying to stop the competitor-will-be by claiming "it's not fair", "it's a violation of intellectual properties", "it's illegal", etc. In fact, all intellectual property has become in the modern day is just an ammunition to prevent the other guy from getting ahead. For examples, see complains to the World Trade Organization involving Airbus and Boeing, or see the legal battles between Apple and Samsung.
These countries and companies have no one to blame but themselves. They want to be lazy. They want to keep being ahead without doing any innovation. Well, China isn't going to limit itself for the benefits of others. If countries like Russia is so worry about China copying and selling the Su-27, may be Russia should have designed a new product sooner instead of pushing the same old crap to customers for over two decades.
Precisely
I still remember Tu-4 is a copy of B-29, right from even the screw and nuts by Russian. At that time, some countries was able to make a copy of B-29 show the level of technology advancement of the country.
And the Russian shall also stop cry foul of copy when they did that kind of things in the past.