Are you saying that the PDF information of the shenyang meeting is wrong?
Chinese Engine Development
- Thread starter jackbh
- Start date
Are you saying that the PDF information of the shenyang meeting is wrong?
Personally I didn't even know SF-A had a WS-15 core... And a 2016 production date too, even though we expect the standard WS-15 to only emerge around then? Something seems a little bit off.
And only 13 tons for a 180kn engine is also suspicious.
And only 13 tons for a 180kn engine is also suspicious.
Perhabs WS-15 doesnt have 180kn? what is the source of this 180kn power?
The same as the sources for any of the estimates we've seen on the WS-15. Rumour mill.
On the contrary that is not from the rumour mill
Note that CJ-1000A here is noted as having 20000 kgf of thrust while the more recent document/conference gives it only 13 tons, meaning there has obviously been some updates to specs between 2012 amd 2013. But I'd doubt the specs for WS-15 would change as dramatically given its strategic military value to numerous programs
Note that CJ-1000A here is noted as having 20000 kgf of thrust while the more recent document/conference gives it only 13 tons, meaning there has obviously been some updates to specs between 2012 amd 2013. But I'd doubt the specs for WS-15 would change as dramatically given its strategic military value to numerous programs
this short comparison makes me wonder how_much_lower_ (if we believe that WS-15 should be something close to F119 class with its 113 kN dry thrust and 155-178 kN max thrust as its declared)
F101 core -> CFM56 -> WS-10A
we see that China got the same almost the same afterburner thrust as CFM56 military 'father', but paid a big price for that with lower bypass ratio and therefore more gas-guzzling engine
General Electric F101
Maximum power output: 31,000 lb (138 kN) (with afterburner)
Military power: 17,000 ln (67 kN)
Overall pressure ratio: 26.8:1
bypass ratio is 2:1
Dry weight: 4,400 lbf (1995 kg)
Thrust-to-weight ratio: 7.04:1 (afterburner)
CFM56-2A2 24,000 lbf (110 kN) 5.9 31.8 4,820 lb (2,190 kg)
CFM56-2B1 22,000 lbf (98 kN) 6.0 30.5 4,671 lb (2,120 kg)
CFM56-2C1 22,000 lbf (98 kN) 6.0 31.3 4,653 lb (2,110 kg)
CFM56-5A1 25,000 lbf (111 kN) 6.0 31.3 4,995 lb (2,270 kg)
CFM56-5A3 26,500 lbf (118 kN) 6.0 31.3 4,995 lb (2,270 kg)
CFM56-5A4 22,000 lbf (97.9 kN) 6.2 31.3 4,995 lb (2,270 kg)
CFM56-5A5 23,500 lbf (105 kN) 6.2 31.3 4,995 lb (2,270 kg)
CFM56-5B1 30,000 lbf (130 kN) 5.5 35.4 5,250 lb (2,380 kg)
CFM56-5B2 31,000 lbf (140 kN) 5.5 35.4 5,250 lb (2,380 kg)
CFM56-5B3 33,000 lbf (150 kN) 5.4 35.5 5,250 lb (2,380 kg)
CFM56-5B4 27,000 lbf (120 kN) 5.7 32.6 5,250 lb (2,380 kg)
CFM56-5B5 22,000 lbf (98 kN) 6.0 32.6 5,250 lb (2,380 kg)
CFM56-5B6 23,500 lbf (100 kN) 5.9 32.6 5,250 lb (2,380 kg)
CFM56-5B7 27,000 lbf (120 kN) 5.7 35.5 5,250 lb (2,380 kg)
CFM56-5B8 21,600 lbf (96 kN) 6.0 32.6 5,250 lb (2,380 kg)
CFM56-5B9 23,300 lbf (100 kN) 5.9 32.6 5,250 lb (2,380 kg)
we see that high-bypass CFMs have thrust that vary from 98 to 150 kN and when thrust higher (and bypass lower) then more thirsty engine we have
Shenyang WS-10
Maximum thrust: 132 kilonewtons (30,000 lbf) with afterburner
Bypass ratio: 0.78:1
Thrust-to-weight ratio: 7.5
if 13 ton figure is correct, then SF-A seems to be just matching average CFM56 family member, with balanced T/W and bypass ratio, and then it's not based on super-duper WS-15, but may be on old good CFM56 core
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Was the CJ-1000A supposed to use the WS-15 core?
Can you imagine MTU helping China to make civil version of it's most advanced and secret engine?
Me not.
Just like the WS-15 is a completely new design with a new core, it's possible the CJ-1000A could be as well. I'm personally inclined to think it uses either the WS-10 or WS-15 core, but until we hear more I'm not discounting the possibility it's completely independent.
