Hyperwarp
Captain
Re: WS-15 Thread
Na..... Crobato is just busy IIRC. Think he is at MIT or some place like that.
Na..... Crobato is just busy IIRC. Think he is at MIT or some place like that.
Chinese Engine Development
- Thread starter jackbh
- Start date
Schumacher
Senior Member
Re: WS-15 Thread
WS-15 is one of the most complex, most powerful turbofans ever done by anyone, period. If by the time it's ready & US hasn't had a successor to F119, China will have surpassed US in this class of engine.
WS-15 is one of the most complex, most powerful turbofans ever done by anyone, period. If by the time it's ready & US hasn't had a successor to F119, China will have surpassed US in this class of engine.
AeroEngineer
Junior Member
Guys please check out J-20 on Wikipedia.
Go and see how much prejiduice there are towards the Chinese. Especially the indians.
Today I was edditing the J-20's engine section and there is always some rats keep edditing it back, and later I got a message from someone called hucco. I click on his web page on wikipedia and he is an indian. These low life indians keep saying thing like this: " There is a belief that China is unable to come up with an engine for J-20". Then it says that China wants 117S, then right after it says: China will not be buying Su-35. Then it goes one and describe WS-15 !!
See this !! This is indian logic, lol. It never makes sense !
They will just never quit on J-20, even though their sh!t LCA can not even fly with American F-404 handed to them.
BTW, I was also very happy that J-20 had such a devastating affect on these low life indians !
I hope that they spend 20 hours a day just guarding J-20's wikipedia page. lol
Go and see how much prejiduice there are towards the Chinese. Especially the indians.
Today I was edditing the J-20's engine section and there is always some rats keep edditing it back, and later I got a message from someone called hucco. I click on his web page on wikipedia and he is an indian. These low life indians keep saying thing like this: " There is a belief that China is unable to come up with an engine for J-20". Then it says that China wants 117S, then right after it says: China will not be buying Su-35. Then it goes one and describe WS-15 !!
See this !! This is indian logic, lol. It never makes sense !
They will just never quit on J-20, even though their sh!t LCA can not even fly with American F-404 handed to them.
BTW, I was also very happy that J-20 had such a devastating affect on these low life indians !
I hope that they spend 20 hours a day just guarding J-20's wikipedia page. lol
broadsword
Brigadier
This is just a reminder that the US is not sitting still on their progress of engine technology, don't mean to derail this thread
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The hottest jet engine ever guzzles less gas
Engineers at GE think they could have a revolution on their hands, thanks to the new jet engine they've been testing recently that runs hotter than any of its predecessors. When combined with some other design changes, they figure their so-called ADVENT (short for ADaptive Versatile ENgine Technology) design could improve fuel efficiency by as much as 25 percent, extend flying ranges by 30 percent, and boost thrust up to 10 percent over contemporary engines.
ADVENT has been in development for some time, but engineers were just recently able to conduct tests and validate the advanced heat-resistant properties of the special composite material GE has developed for the engine's core.
Just like with a home wood stove, the hotter the temperature created inside an engine, the more energy it puts out and the more efficiently it burns its fuel. "It’s pure thermodynamics," says Rick Albrecht, manager for advanced military systems at GE Aviation.
But raising the temperature in a jet engine is not as simple as tossing another log on the fire, since jet fuel burns hotter than the melting point of even more advanced alloys used in aviation. Innovative venting and cooling techniques are used to keep jet engines from melting down in mid-air, but these systems also make the engines less efficient.
GE's answer was to develop advanced lightweight ceramics-based materials that can take the heat. Dubbed "ceramic matrix composites," CMCs are made from "silicon carbide matrix toughened with coated fibers made from the same material." GE claims CMCs outperform advanced alloys by resisting temperatures up to 2,400ºF (1,316ºC).
The ADVENT design combines this super hot-burning core with a jet engine that is essentially two types of engine in one. In one mode, ADVENT allows more air to flow through the core, resulting in increased thrust, speed and performance like that of a fighter jet. But the design also allows for that flow-through to be reduced, providing a more fuel-efficient cruising mode. For more details on how ADVENT works, see our earlier article on the technology.
While allowing fighter pilots to save Uncle Sam a few bucks on their cruise home from a mission is an obvious application, GE says CMCs could soon end up in engines used by passenger jets like the Boeing 747-8 jumbo.
“The latest GE jet engines like the LEAP, the GE9X, and even the GEnx are looking at an extensive use of CMCs,” says Dave Jeffcoat, ADVENT project manager at GE Aviation. “The tests show that we’ve picked the right technology. We are building on a solid foundation.”
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The hottest jet engine ever guzzles less gas
Engineers at GE think they could have a revolution on their hands, thanks to the new jet engine they've been testing recently that runs hotter than any of its predecessors. When combined with some other design changes, they figure their so-called ADVENT (short for ADaptive Versatile ENgine Technology) design could improve fuel efficiency by as much as 25 percent, extend flying ranges by 30 percent, and boost thrust up to 10 percent over contemporary engines.
ADVENT has been in development for some time, but engineers were just recently able to conduct tests and validate the advanced heat-resistant properties of the special composite material GE has developed for the engine's core.
Just like with a home wood stove, the hotter the temperature created inside an engine, the more energy it puts out and the more efficiently it burns its fuel. "It’s pure thermodynamics," says Rick Albrecht, manager for advanced military systems at GE Aviation.
But raising the temperature in a jet engine is not as simple as tossing another log on the fire, since jet fuel burns hotter than the melting point of even more advanced alloys used in aviation. Innovative venting and cooling techniques are used to keep jet engines from melting down in mid-air, but these systems also make the engines less efficient.
GE's answer was to develop advanced lightweight ceramics-based materials that can take the heat. Dubbed "ceramic matrix composites," CMCs are made from "silicon carbide matrix toughened with coated fibers made from the same material." GE claims CMCs outperform advanced alloys by resisting temperatures up to 2,400ºF (1,316ºC).
The ADVENT design combines this super hot-burning core with a jet engine that is essentially two types of engine in one. In one mode, ADVENT allows more air to flow through the core, resulting in increased thrust, speed and performance like that of a fighter jet. But the design also allows for that flow-through to be reduced, providing a more fuel-efficient cruising mode. For more details on how ADVENT works, see our earlier article on the technology.
While allowing fighter pilots to save Uncle Sam a few bucks on their cruise home from a mission is an obvious application, GE says CMCs could soon end up in engines used by passenger jets like the Boeing 747-8 jumbo.
“The latest GE jet engines like the LEAP, the GE9X, and even the GEnx are looking at an extensive use of CMCs,” says Dave Jeffcoat, ADVENT project manager at GE Aviation. “The tests show that we’ve picked the right technology. We are building on a solid foundation.”
Not surprising...higher temperature=more efficient burn.
Higher temperature = higher thermal efficiency.
But you want to adapt your cycle to the circumstances. You can turn the stator blades of one or more of the compressor stages around their axis to some extent, you certainly want to have variable geometry for the engine exhaust in supersonic aircraft, possibly also variable air intakes for higher supersonic aircraft, perhaps auxiliary air intakes for high thrust at low speed. You can have bypass ports to let air escape from the compressor at low thrust.
The true variable engine has variable geometry in the turbine(s) and/or large power off takes. Think also about such exotica as the Ryan XV-5.
aviation week: China is developing 4 high bypassChina Developing Four High-Bypass Turbofans
By Bradley Perrett
Source: Aviation Daily
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May 02, 2013
Credit: ComacChina is developing four high-bypass turbofans, only two of which were previously known. All four have potential military and civil applications.
Work at Shenyang on a high-bypass turbofan in the 30,000 lb. class and suitable for large transport aircraft was already known, along with development of the similarly sized CJ-1000 engine for the C919 commercial aircraft.
But it turns out that there are two such engines from the Shenyang design bureau of Avic Engine: the WS-118 and the SF-A. This was revealed in materials prepared for a May 22-23 conference organized by Galleon (Shanghai) Consulting in association with Avic. The Avic connection means the conference materials can be taken as semi-official.
Both engines from the Shenyang Engine and Design Research Institute are based on fighter-engine cores, just as Western aircraft in the 1970s often used combat cores.
The 26,500-lb.-thrust WS-118 is based on the WS-10A Taihang core, which powers the J-10 and J-11B fighters, according to a document prepared for the China Aerospace Propulsion Technology Summit. Avic Engine’s Shenyang Liming Aero-Engine group is scheduled to begin manufacturing it in 2015.
The WS-118 is a candidate for the Y-20 military airlifter and Comac’s C919 airliner, Galleon reports, although it is likely to be underpowered for the Y-20 and too inefficient for the C919. The same design institute is working on a similar but slightly more powerful turbofan, the 28,700-lb.-thrust SF-A, based on the WS-15 core, reputed to be the engine of the J-20 heavy stealth fighter.
The SF-A has been mentioned previously as a prospective C919 engine. Industry executives also report the existence of an SF-B engine, which may be a version of the SF-A.
Meanwhile, a fourth high-bypass Chinese turbofan is in the works, the smaller WS-12C, using the core of the little-known WS-12 combat engine and intended to power the Comac ARJ21 regional jet, whose only publicly revealed engine until now has been the General Electric CF34-10A. With a thrust of 17,600 lb., the WS-12C is under development by the Chengdu Gas Turbine Research Institute.
Originally to be built by Chengdu Engine, it will be transferred to ACAE, the Avic unit developing the CJ-1000, suggesting the engine has a commercial future, even though sales prospects of the much delayed ARJ21, even with a fairly modern Western turbofan, look increasingly doubtful.
TF engine.
Whoa. Thats too many engine programs. How many of them are for real and how many are pork ?
China should have abandone WS-118 in favor of something more powerful like 40,000 lbs. plus jet engine.
Schumacher
Senior Member
This is what I know. SFA is not based on WS15 but WS20 thus WS10 instead. It was meant as the engine for C919 but it became clear it won't be competitive. So there's no more SFA. CJ1000 is now meant to be China's domestic engine for C919.
Not sure about WS118, do they mean WS18 ? Based on D30 instead, not WS10. It's a backup for Y20, & likely to be used on H6 & IL76.