Chinese Engine Development
- Thread starter jackbh
- Start date
antiterror13
Brigadier
I do think China will have a credible and robust high performance turbofan technology and know how in 10-15 years, before that, people will doubt and just guessing. I know China has been producing turbojet since 1960s and turbofan since 1980s, but they are not high performance turbofan engine, like 30 years behind the most advanced American turbofan engine (used for F-22). That's so amazing that's America still hold that so big upper hand in engine technology, no other country even Russia is even close to the USA or British ... really amazing
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Where did you get 30 years from? Surely you didn't just based that on when the P&W F100 first flew compared to the WS10A right? Since the WS10A today is far more advanced than the first F100.
And also, it is a meaningless exercise in trying to describe how far advanced America is in number of years. As I do not think anyone seriously expects China to take as many years to catch up as it took for America to first pioneer the technology.
The WS15, an F119 class engine, is expected to fly before the decade is out at the latest. Just look at the first flight dates between the F100 and F119 compared to WS10A compared to the expected first flight of the WS15 to see how flawed it is to measure Chinese engine development times based on historical American engine development times.
And also, it is a meaningless exercise in trying to describe how far advanced America is in number of years. As I do not think anyone seriously expects China to take as many years to catch up as it took for America to first pioneer the technology.
The WS15, an F119 class engine, is expected to fly before the decade is out at the latest. Just look at the first flight dates between the F100 and F119 compared to WS10A compared to the expected first flight of the WS15 to see how flawed it is to measure Chinese engine development times based on historical American engine development times.
antiterror13
Brigadier
F119 engine was developed roughly 30 years ago and there is no proof WS15 will be as good, let alone better than F119, we will have to see whether WS15 will meet PLAAF requirement, otherwise J-20 programme wil be in big big trouble.
China need to double or quadruple R & D budget for high performance engine. It is the Achilles heel for China, no doubt. China is closing the gap very quickly in other areas, but I don't see that in high performance engine.
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plawolf
Lieutenant General
The F119 was first assembled in 1996, and first flew in 2000. 30 years indeed!
Also, at least read what I have written, when did I say the WS15 will be better?
The J20 is flying just fine with WS10A/Gs, so even if the WS15 totally tanks, it's still can still fly. It won't be operating at full potential, but it will hardly be in 'big big trouble'.
China has now at least matured the WS10A, that is a massive accomplishment, and there is your high performance engine example right there.
Also, throwing loads of money at a problem is hardly a sure fire way to solve it. Sometimes you just need time, and throwing more money will just result in waste.
Insisting China needs to do something as drastic as doubling or quadrupling its engine R&D budget just seems like a really baseless suggestion. Do you even know how much China is currently spending on engine R&D?
kwaigonegin
Colonel
plawolf, not sure where you got your facts from but antiterror is correct in terms of timeline. The F-119 was first developed way back in the early 80's and actually flew on board the YF22 and YF23 in 1990 (if not before) as the YF119. It is essentially the same engine as the production F-119 that ultimately powers the F22.
30 years is indeed a correct figure.
YF119 on display at the National Museum of the U.S. Air Force, Wright-Patterson AFB
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plawolf
Lieutenant General
You are right that the F119 was developed earlier.
But the first engine only began ground testing in 1992. The 2000 date was when the first production engine delivered. There was a mix up because of the formatting of the PDF document on my phone in summary mode and the document was taking too long to load so I didn't bother to re-check. Guess that will teach me to do my research with a smartphone.
However, that still does not mean there is a 30 year gap. What does a 30 year gap even supposed to mean?
But the first engine only began ground testing in 1992. The 2000 date was when the first production engine delivered. There was a mix up because of the formatting of the PDF document on my phone in summary mode and the document was taking too long to load so I didn't bother to re-check. Guess that will teach me to do my research with a smartphone.
However, that still does not mean there is a 30 year gap. What does a 30 year gap even supposed to mean?
Well, if we take like points of development as a fixed measure to space out the years. the F119 didn't start ground testing until 1992, but the WS-15 to our knowledge isn't ready for testing yet, so that would be at least a gap of 20 years.
A request for proposals (RFP) for the fighter's engine, called the Joint Advanced Fighter Engine (JAFE), was released in May 1983. Pratt & Whitney and General Electric received contracts for the development and production of prototype engines in September 1983.
June 1985 - PW5000 mockup revealed
November 1986 - Pratt & Whitney has begun testing the PW5000/XF119 demonstrator engine, forerunner of
its YF119 prototype powerplant for the US Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF).
June 1987 - Testing of Pratt & Whitney's PW5000/XF119 joint technology demonstrator engine, forerunner of its YF119 advanced tactical fighter (ATF) powerplant, has begun at the US Air Force's Arnold Engineering Development Centre (AEDC), Tennessee
June 1987 - General Electric ran its GE37/XF120 advanced technology fighter engine demonstrator for the first time on the eve of the Show, some months behind Pratt& Whitney's competing PW5000/XF119, the second example of which has also just run.
May 1990 - Pratt & Whitney has delivered the first two YF119-100 engines to the United States Air Force in preparation for flight tests in both the Northrop/McDonnell Douglas YF-23A and the Lockheed/Boeing/General Dynamics YF-22A.
The Analogue would be a lot easier if we had a similar timeline for the WS-15.