Chinese Engine Development

Incidentally, one can't see the inner structure of the silver nozzled engine when the nozzle is 'flat'. But as Deino's picture shows, you can see the AL-31F's inner structure when the its nozzle is in a similar position (of course, photo quality could be part of the reason for that).

Curious.

Roger604 said:

Where does PLAAF get these AL-31F's?

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buys critical spare parts here. various many. for about 100 MUSD per year
it can't be described as shipping Jeep to home by parts in M.A.S.H. famous episode (turbine blades, disks etc.), but quite enough to refurbish many AL-31Fs

flateric said:

buys critical spare parts here. various many. for about 100 MUSD per year
it can't be described as shipping Jeep to home by parts in M.A.S.H. famous episode (turbine blades, disks etc.), but quite enough to refurbish many AL-31Fs

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Where is "here"? Russia?

That also doesn't solve the problem of why there seems to be more J-10's and other aircraft using AL-31F than the number of engines that China has purchased from Russia in total.

If all these AL-31F were from Russia, then one would expect China right about now to order more to cover all its possible needs. Yet there is no news on this from Russia (surely they would publicize any deals they get).

Centrist said:

The notion that China can greatly improve the lifespan of the AL-31F, seems to me that perhaps they could produce copies on their own....? But then...why WS-10?

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If the theory that AL-31F was completely indigenized is correct. Then WS-10 is the successor product. AL-31F is the 4th generation aircraft engines from Russia, while WS-10 is based on 4th generation aircraft engine technology from USA. The latter should be better in terms of service life and the WS-10 design allows future modifications that take it beyond AL-31F level.

Roger604 said:

Where is "here"? Russia?

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Yes

Roger604 said:

That also doesn't solve the problem of why there seems to be more J-10's and other aircraft using AL-31F than the number of engines that China has purchased from Russia in total.

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Why do you think that all contracts being reported? And 'seems' and 'surely' are two different terms.

Roger604 said:

If all these AL-31F were from Russia, then one would expect China right about now to order more to cover all its possible needs. Yet there is no news on this from Russia (surely they would publicize any deals they get).

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It does exactly this. Moreover, China in talks with Salyut since last summer to develop AL-31FN series 4 as J-20 powerplant till PW-15 would come. They just don't shout of it at every street.

flateric said:

It does exactly this. Moreover, China in talks with Salyut since last summer to develop AL-31FN series 4 as J-20 powerplant till PW-15 would come. They just don't shout of it at every street.

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Are you certain of this? whats the source of this information? russian sources?

kroko said:

Are you certain of this? whats the source of this information? russian sources?

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I doubt the source too.. Usually Russian military export news agency will not hold back any news of China importing military equipment from Russian. And then they will make a big whooha of it, even rumour will make a big news of it like reported of Su-35BM and Su-33

Even really not, Kanwa shall have also reported of news of recent import. But nothing but hot air.

I'm just talking of what I know. It's surely your right to believe it or not.

flateric said:

...
It does exactly this. Moreover, China in talks with Salyut since last summer to develop AL-31FN series 4 as J-20 powerplant till PW-15 would come. They just don't shout of it at every street.

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flateric,

So there has been talks with MMPP Salut after all? Not at all surprising. They have worked together with the J-10 and it seems logical.

You said AL-31FN series 4? What is this variant?

Is this the engine you are referring to :

Thanx in advance,

Hyper.

It's not on the web of course. Developed from M1. Most of all CAC interested in 3D TVC for J-20. Thrust is important, but less so far. 14 tonn class engine considered enough. Average rate of Chinese comrades' visits to Salyut is four times per year.

I don't have any problem with it. As long as they can get an engine that will fit their program, it doesn't matter if it's WS-10 series right now as long as WS-15 continue to get the right support and funding. My problem with Salyut is that we have heard so much about all of the variants like M1, M2, M3 and M4, but we haven't seen any of it coming out. It seems like there hasn't been a lot of result to all of China's investment in Salyut. Clearly, Russia is going the route of 117S, so Salyut is relying on Chinese orders to survive right now.