Chinese Economics Thread

[J20 RTS]

I am not talking about the morality of it since I know for a fact how evil or depraved the US or its allies can be. The question is why it still continues to lead despite all the mistakes it has made and despite it being a nation only 250 years old.

Middle East or South East Asia or Latin America, Africa are areas with a complete freehand enjoyed by the Americans. Except maybe the ASEAN countries sharing land border with China who may "give China some face", no other country in ASEAN can and would openly challenge the Americans. None of them are big enough, advanced enough, populous enough to do it. Same holds true for the Middle East, Latin America, Africa and Europe, I might add. Even though Europe as a continent consists of developed countries to a large extent with high human development indices, individual Euroepan countries are small and thus susceptible to American pressure, which might also be called bullying. There is no substitute for population in geopolitics. There is not a single instance of a small country, no matter how developed its human capital or institutions or economy or technological base might be, that can independently pursue policies with fear of repercussion from the Americans. None.

For China, the enduring advantage is only its population. In every other indicator, so far, it seems China not only lags but there is no possibility of China surpassing the Americans in decades to come. That being said, best wishes to the Chinese.

Sleepy, is this you again? Version 5 now?

 

[duskseeker]

I want to add the Sassanid Empire

 

[SanWenYu]

I disagree. Why do you believe so?

Soviet Union could never outcompete the United States. Vladimir Putin admitted as much. Japan could not. Except for population, which the United States can/has easily countered thanks to its undisputed leadership of the entire Western civilization and sometimes, selectively handpicking the brightest of talents from third world territories, there is no enduring advantage China enjoys over the United States.

If we believe in false theories, like @Hendrik_2000 does, or hold on to false expectations, we will only hurt ourselves in the process.

China will continue to be laggards for decades to come. You are free to argue otherwise. I am all ears. There is no scope for perverse ideas like racism in this debate, I think.

I will point you to this very well-said post: Breaking & World News! III NO DISCUSSION!!.

In your case, you are implying that the Chinese are too dumb to make their own choice (of the political system). Patronizing to say the least.

By the way, you firmly believe that China will continue to be laggards for decades, meanwhile the undisputed leader of the entire Western civilization are desperately trying to stop China. You and the elites of Western civilization cannot be correct at the same time.

Time will tell how long China will take to catch up. Patience is a virtue.

 

[gelgoog]

Limitation of military options, technological backwardness might be other limiting factors. China has been playing catch up for decades and this process will continue for decades to come, if it ever comes to a halt at all. It's easier for authoritarian states to copy or imitate leading countries but not provide new ideas or novel working methods or technological breakthroughs or scientific theories and concepts that shatter old myths.

Even a democratic, Western aligned Japan could never out innovate, outcompete the Americans. That says something.

I tire of hearing this trope. Ahem LIE would be a better way to put it. Japan managed to develop the blue-violet LED which is the foundation for modern white LED illumination (which they also developed) and BluRay technology. They developed the first commercial AMOLED screens. They came up with NAND Flash. They invented the 3 1/2" floppy disk. The CD and DVD. I could go on. Back in WW2, when they had an authoritarian regime, one of the reasons the A6M Zero fighter had longer range than any Allied fighter was that it used an Aluminium alloy developed by Japan which the US only had an equivalent of in 1943. Metallurgy is one of the hardest technologies to develop and Imperial Japan had better steel and alluminium alloys than the US did. Japan also developed the Type 93 "Long Lance" torpedo which was superior to anything the US had.

Soviet Union could never outcompete the United States. Vladimir Putin admitted as much. Japan could not. Except for population, which the United States can/has easily countered thanks to its undisputed leadership of the entire Western civilization and sometimes, selectively handpicking the brightest of talents from third world territories, there is no enduring advantage China enjoys over the United States.
...
China will continue to be laggards for decades to come. You are free to argue otherwise. I am all ears. There is no scope for perverse ideas like racism in this debate, I think.

I can easily counter this by looking at history. China between the Han and Ming periods was more developed than the rest of the world. China is large enough it can do scientific and economic development all by itself. It just needs the proper system in place.

 

[TK3600]

Huns, Mongolians, Turks, North Africans, just to name a few.

And soon Chinese.

 

[Bellum_Romanum]

Do

I tire of hearing this trope. Ahem LIE would be a better way to put it. Japan managed to develop the blue-violet LED which is the foundation for modern white LED illumination (which they also developed) and BluRay technology. They developed the first commercial AMOLED screens. They came up with NAND Flash. They invented the 3 1/2" floppy disk. The CD and DVD. I could go on. Back in WW2, when they had an authoritarian regime, one of the reasons the A6M Zero fighter had longer range than any Allied fighter was that it used an Aluminium alloy developed by Japan which the US only had an equivalent of in 1943. Metallurgy is one of the hardest technologies to develop and Imperial Japan had better steel and alluminium alloys than the US did. Japan also developed the Type 93 "Long Lance" torpedo which was superior to anything the US had.



I can easily counter this by looking at history. China between the Han and Ming periods was more developed than the rest of the world. China is large enough it can do scientific and economic development all by itself. It just needs the proper system in place.

Don't bother responding to another iteration of @sleeystudent the dude is comically desperate to insert his nonsensical drivel and half-truths on just about every issue at hand. For this fella western culture and American culture trumps anything and everything under the sun that comes out of the contemporary "East." And that's coming from an Indian emigre who calls America his home. The man has created how many profiles just to keep continuing his crackpot and racial theories that have no buyers on this forum but like a weed he seems to reappear again and again. The man is a masochist. Lol

 

[Godzilla]

My thoughts. Outside of what we term ethnic minorities today, China in her prime were also very multicultural, not just in the way of tribute state envoys and traders coming into the capital. I mean, HanWuDi had Jingrichang, the Hun prince as one of his favorite officials during the peak of the Hun vs Han conflict, and there were plenty of Goryeo, Turk, Korean ethnic generals serving in the Tang army. Even the Ming empire had a large Mongol calvary contingent (san qian ying) as part of its elite corps.

Meritocracy is deeply engrained into China culturally and its one of the keys to success. Ming and Qing kind of neutered it with the eight legged essay and closed off the empire to the rest of the world. Which is why its essential for China now to remain open to the world to accept new ideas and talents. The reforms and anti corruption drives the CPC is undertaking shows the it is evolving and adapting to the circumstances. America, for all its faults, were pretty meritocratic at the start, and attracted talents from everywhere else. But its now pretty screwed like Europe with nepotism running rampant and racism bubbling internally and externally. The democracy is failing with the elite just gaming the system to defend their interests and basically just build narratives instead of taking any concrete action. To say a system built on such pillars cannot be toppled is just plain stupid. They will eventually just revert back to the most primitive form of democracy, i.e. peasants rebellion.

It'll be interesting what happens in 10 or 20 years time when China becomes bigger economically than EU and US combined. The BRI will help attract and export talents and ideas into China like the old days. East Asians, South East Asians swing where the wind blows, and will most likely return to the old orbits to continue their old grudges. It might actually be good for everyone. As long as we have enough nukes to turn our enemies into glass should the need arise, it'll be kind of fun watching the futile containment exercises by the West, weakening themselves further and quicker.

 

[zgx09t]

Looking at historical trends, the wider Middle East, North Africa, Central Asia region was easily invaded, dominated, subjugated by Europeans/Western civilization thousands of years before industrial revolution first occured in damp, soggy UK. In return, the heart of Western civilization in the form of Rome could never be conquered by the most ancient civilizations in the world - the Mesopotemians/Iraqis, Syrians, Egyptians, Lebanese, Tunisians, Iranians, Anatolians, Pakistanis, Afghans or Indians.

Boy oh boy, where did you learn all this? Your beloved latin Rome was merely a shadow thousand years before remaining greek byzentine fucked up more than 10 ways till that fateful Sunday in May 1453, with the help of catholic genoese and orthodox serbian princess no less. Yeah, so a lot of people around that region effed them up pretty bad.

 

[Aniah]

There is no winning without sacrifice but you have to make your point clear you are no push over! And you have principle in life NOT everything can be bought with money! One of it is honor and dignity! EVen China did nothing they will decouple so what is the use kowtowing

All this talk but I don't see China or Chinese suffering. Now the westerners on the other hand. You know the Chinese won't do anything you've saId, might you kindly stop wasting your breath on this topic?

 

[Aniah]

Do

Don't bother responding to another iteration of @sleeystudent the dude is comically desperate to insert his nonsensical drivel and half-truths on just about every issue at hand. For this fella western culture and American culture trumps anything and everything under the sun that comes out of the contemporary "East." And that's coming from an Indian emigre who calls America his home. The man has created how many profiles just to keep continuing his crackpot and racial theories that have no buyers on this forum but like a weed he seems to reappear again and again. The man is a masochist. Lol

I swear to god a good portion of my ignore list is just the same person at this point.