Chinese Economics Thread

[SamuraiBlue]

So changing garments and culinary practise is thus indicative of one culture "taking over" another? That makes it sound like one culture is absorbing and erasing the other.
By your example, then you can say no civilisation on earth is not absorbed by western civilisation due to the penetrance of western clothing, food, media and brands.

Regarding your Mongolia example, do you seriously think your examples are sufficient evidence to say that it was the invading Mongolians whose culture absorbed the chinese, rather than vice versa? Social-political framework, language, and "civilisation" ambition. Do you think the Mongolians absorbed the chinese culture in that regard?

You'll have to agree that Chinese culture went through a change when the Mongols ruled the land during the 11th century and again later on in the 18th century. You can identify those points easily.
As for language it changes all the time with adoption of various words. I believe China adopted Japanese words and even various hanji to express new items that were introduced through westernization of Japan during the mid 19th century.

As for continuity of civilisation, the onus is on you to provide what you perceive as incidences of it being broken.

Personally, i think that apart from measuring civilisation on the basis of physical structures locations and use of a said structures and locations, it is the idea of the civilisation and its physical boundaries that is important. The Roman Empire (and more importantly , its boundaries) is dead because no one believes in it. Same for the mongol empire. Can you provide an example for where no one chinese credibly didn't believe in the idea of china (note not the "chinese empire," but rather simply china, the self titled "Middle Kingdom" ) and its boundaries? Indeed, that was the entire basis of the KMT and CCP, both believed themselves to be the true inheritors of the chinese civilisation, that even after the century of foreign domination, the idea of china had not yet died.

In China's history there have been countless incidences of civil war, foreign invasion (and in more distant times, that was followed up with chinese cultural assimilation of the invader), and more recently, with the century of western and Japanese invasion. But in that time, has the idea of china ever been broken?

You do understand that you are contradicting yourself when you talk of boundaries since when the Mongols invaded and took over, those inherited boundaries were lost from the indigenous Han people. Even if you retake the boundaries under your definition the continuation had been broken.

 

[Blitzo]

You'll have to agree that Chinese culture went through a change when the Mongols ruled the land during the 11th century and again later on in the 18th century. You can identify those points easily.
As for language it changes all the time with adoption of various words. I believe China adopted Japanese words and even various hanji to express new items that were introduced through westernization of Japan during the mid 19th century.

Cultures go through changes all the time, but mild or even extreme changes in culture does not a "break" in civilisation make. I've already explained my perception of what it means for a civilisation to continue, if you believe that cultural change across any degree of severity = civilisation change then there isn't much more for us to say.

---

Let's put it another way, do you think the lineage of Japanese civilisation was broken after WWII?
I don't.
Do you?

You do understand that you are contradicting yourself when you talk of boundaries since when the Mongols invaded and took over, those inherited boundaries were lost from the indigenous Han people. Even if you retake the boundaries under your definition the continuation had been broken.

I'm not contradicting myself because it was the mongols who were absorbed by the chinese civilisation, not the other way around.

 

[AssassinsMace]

You'll have to agree that Chinese culture went through a change when the Mongols ruled the land during the 11th century and again later on in the 18th century. You can identify those points easily.
As for language it changes all the time with adoption of various words. I believe China adopted Japanese words and even various hanji to express new items that were introduced through westernization of Japan during the mid 19th century.



You do understand that you are contradicting yourself when you talk of boundaries since when the Mongols invaded and took over, those inherited boundaries were lost from the indigenous Han people. Even if you retake the boundaries under your definition the continuation had been broken.

American pop culture nearly all comes from African-American culture. You don't hear anything of American culture being taken over or has a broken civilization. Japanese have adopted American popular culture. Does that mean Japanese culture is now African?

 

[Equation]

American pop culture nearly all comes from African-American culture. You don't hear anything of American culture being taken over or has a broken civilization. Japanese have adopted American popular culture. Does that mean Japanese culture is now African?

I say the entire world is made up from the plethora of Chinese inventions from the arts, science, architecture, and medicine. I mean without, the gun powder, paper (and paper currency), magnetic compass, printing press using blocks, along with philosophy and religious studies are just the few that benefited the world all thanks to the Silk Road trade and Marco Polo. So in a sense Chinese culture is everywhere and still continuing for the benefit of man kind. Have I even mention about Kung Fu, culinary cooking, and the fine arts yet? My God there are so many...yes, I'm being a little smug but proud as heck! And another thing, don't even get me started with the modern era.

 

[SamuraiBlue]

I say the entire world is made up from the plethora of Chinese inventions from the arts, science, architecture, and medicine. I mean without, the gun powder, paper (and paper currency), magnetic compass, printing press using blocks, along with philosophy and religious studies are just the few that benefited the world all thanks to the Silk Road trade and Marco Polo. So in a sense Chinese culture is everywhere and still continuing for the benefit of man kind. Have I even mention about Kung Fu, culinary cooking, and the fine arts yet? My God there are so many...yes, I'm being a little smug but proud as heck! And another thing, don't even get me started with the modern era.

Hate to rain on your parade but China's contribution in philosophy and religion is quite small. As for Kung fu was adopted from India when bodhidharma came to teach Buddhism. As for paper currency, Egyptians were the first to utilize it.

 

[jobjed]

Hate to rain on your parade but China's contribution in philosophy and religion is quite small. As for Kung fu was adopted from India when bodhidharma came to teach Buddhism. As for paper currency, Egyptians were the first to utilize it.

Kung Fu is an overarching term that colloquially refers to all forms of Chinese martial arts. The specific school of martial arts related to Bodhidharma is the well-known Shaolin Kung Fu, one of many schools of martial arts in China. To generalise all schools of Chinese martial arts as "adopted from India" is as inaccurate as asserting that all forms of Japanese martial arts originated from China by merit of Karate's Chinese origins alone.

Egyptians never invented paper, neither has any one of them seen paper before their civilisation collapsed. Papyrus was a parchment made not from wood pulp, but from a reed-like plant. In any case, owing to their lack of paper, the contention that they used "paper currency" is laughable.

In the context of the Western world, Chinese influences on philosophy and religion are minimal. Correspondingly, Western influences on Chinese philosophy and religion are minimal with the exception of Christianity which has a minority presence, although still significant in terms of absolute numbers. The overwhelmingly predominant philosophy in practice today in China is Confucianism with hierarchies being an innate feature of Chinese society. Whereas the Judeo-Christian paradigm focuses on "all men are created equal", the Confucian equivalent is something along the lines of "know your place in the hierarchy and do your assigned job well". These two philosophies are irreconcilable which is why both the West and China have remained more or less independent of each other's influences.

Lastly, it is completely unnecessary to insert an insincere disclaimer; "[h]ate to rain on your parade". You know you enjoyed it, we all know you enjoyed it and frankly, we expect you to enjoy it; schadenfreude is, after all, an uncontrollable instinct. Selective choice of sardonic lexis only compounds friction and if your actions are even mildly representative of the rest of your countrymen's, then I don't see how East Asia will be able to harmonise with such a sharp-tongued party in its midst.

 

[broadsword]

Hate to rain on your parade but China's contribution in philosophy and religion is quite small. As for Kung fu was adopted from India when bodhidharma came to teach Buddhism. As for paper currency, Egyptians were the first to utilize it.

Hate to burst your bubble. I googled "first to use paper currency" and see what I got

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[Skywatcher]

The Ancient Egyptians didn't use paper, they used papyrus.

 

[getready]

You guys know when not to feed the trolls too much

 

[Equation]

You guys know when not to feed the trolls too much

We're not "feeding" the troll we're just calling him out as it is with pure plain facts and history that they like to skip and spin it in a way to show the inferiority of China that hides their insecurity and distaste for China and it's government system that 's growing in power therefore a threat to the status quo.