Chinese Economics Thread

[broadsword]

China wants 70,000 megawatts of solar by 2017, triple what they currently have


Some pretty ambitious targets
China's air is just too polluted. As you can see on the map below, pollution from coal power plants (among other things) are fouling up the whole coast, which is where most people live. Things are so bad that a jar of fresh mountain air from France was actually sold at auction in Beijing and China's premier has declared a "war on pollution".

Tripling solar capacity in a few years
At the end of 2013, China had almost 20 gigawatts (GW) solar capacity. The government's new goal for 2017 is to reach 70 GW of solar power, in addition to 150 GW of wind power, 11 GW of biomass, and 330 GW of hydropower. This should help it reach the target of 13% of power from sources other than fossil fuels, the main cause of air pollution in the country, on top of greenhouse gases.

Unfortunately, China also keeps approving the construction of more coal plants. To truly make progress fast enough, it should look for clean alternative to these. I understand that as hundred of millions of people are getting out of poverty, there's a huge increase in demand for electricity, but coal plants stick around for very long and are hard to shut down once built, so China shouldn't tie its own hands...

Before you point the finger at China for its air pollution, remember that most countries including the US have very smoggy pasts. What matters is fixing the problem, not blaming others, because there's plenty of blame to go around. Click on the photo below to see what Pittsburgh looked like a few decades ago:

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

China is the oldest continuing civilization on Earth. US presidents have up to a two term lifespan. Dynasties say nothing.

Dynasties rise and fall based on stability eventually they all end. and with them comes the birth of a new China. It's the Cycle. the current China is the resuilt of the 1970's reforms not the first Emperor. those are just the blood lines the History and Mythology.

US presidents have Term limits not life spans the USA has it stands today is a nation born in the post Civil war era. each new president post Roosevelt limited to two terms and a maximum of 10 years ( 8 years as President, two spare in case of a VP who through death of the President, becomes President.)
Nations have risen from nothing to everything quickly before and will do so again. China is not unique in that.

 

[AssassinsMace]

Dynasties fall and rise on a multitude of reasons just like Presidents who lose elections. Does the country collapse because of it? Some do but to suggest China, the oldest continuing civilization on Earth, is going down faster because China can do things faster is just laughable. What? Is China going back to straw huts like everything even technology is going to be taken away? That's what is suggested. The West goes through up and downs economically but when it happens to other countries somehow it means everything is taken away. Paved roads become dirt roads. Everything reverts back like Cinderella and her pumpkin. Also if anyone is saying the communist party is another dynasty then a President's term in office is another dynasty as well.

 

[Doombreed]

Dynasties fall and rise on a multitude of reasons just like Presidents who lose elections. Does the country collapse because of it? Some do but to suggest China, the oldest continuing civilization on Earth, is going down faster because China can do things faster is just laughable. What? Is China going back to straw huts like everything even technology is going to be taken away? That's what is suggested. The West goes through up and downs economically but when it happens to other countries somehow it means everything is taken away. Paved roads become dirt roads. Everything reverts back like Cinderella and her pumpkin. Also if anyone is saying the communist party is another dynasty then a President's term in office is another dynasty as well.

I like how you used the word "straw". Nice straw man argument there.

No one is predicting the end of the Chinese civilisation. But China goes through a distinctive dynasty cycle. This has been well researched. Think Han, Tang, Ming and Qing. There's a distinctive pattern. The modern era accelerates that cycle. When it took the Ming and Qing around 120 years to reach ascendency, it took the new China 30-40. So does that mean the other part of the cycle will accelerate as well?

Here’s a quick and dirty link as a primer.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[Blitzo]

There are so many differences between today's china and ancient china that such a question can easily be reversed for one to wonder whether the modern day's technology, infrastructure, information communication, and globalisation (not to mention China's geopolitical-economic position in the world) might mean the cycle of dynastic rise and collapse may be dramatically slowed or stopped.

There is also the question of how to quantify a dyanstic change in the modern sense.


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All in all, it is a very loaded question.

 

[AssassinsMace]

I like how you used the word "straw". Nice straw man argument there.

No one is predicting the end of the Chinese civilisation. But China goes through a distinctive dynasty cycle. This has been well researched. Think Han, Tang, Ming and Qing. There's a distinctive pattern. The modern era accelerates that cycle. When it took the Ming and Qing around 120 years to reach ascendency, it took the new China 30-40. So does that mean the other part of the cycle will accelerate as well?

Here’s a quick and dirty link as a primer.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

You mean as fallacious as to think just because the Chinese do the positive faster it means they would do the negative faster? If you didn't get it, I was using your logic.

Ever hear of the candle that's twice as bright last half as long? That's what you're trying to say. But what you're not getting is it has nothing to do with your argument. Who says China has a finite supply of candle wax that has nothing to do with the rest of the world to which you think is only contained to China to which why it will run out. You know why you got it wrong? It's because China just signed a gas deal with Russia. According to how your logic would work is somehow China is only allowed to use what energy needs it has domestically to burn it out quicker.

 

[SamuraiBlue]

China is the oldest continuing civilization on Earth.

This is false as well since the Chinese has been overtaken at least twice by the Mongols. It also had gone through various stages in which various dynasties overlapped each other as different nations disrupting continuity. At this point you could state Greece, Rome and or any other random civilizations are as old or even older then China since they are aware of their heritage.

 

[AssassinsMace]

This is false as well since the Chinese has been overtaken at least twice by the Mongols. It also had gone through various stages in which various dynasties overlapped each other as different nations disrupting continuity. At this point you could state Greece, Rome and or any other random civilizations are as old or even older then China since they are aware of their heritage.

Since when did Mongolian culture take over China?

 

[Blitzo]

This is false as well since the Chinese has been overtaken at least twice by the Mongols. It also had gone through various stages in which various dynasties overlapped each other as different nations disrupting continuity. At this point you could state Greece, Rome and or any other random civilizations are as old or even older then China since they are aware of their heritage.

I think it is more accurate to say the invading mongols were absorbed by the chinese civilisations of the time rather than vice versa.

 

[Doombreed]

You mean as fallacious as to think just because the Chinese do the positive faster it means they would do the negative faster? If you didn't get it, I was using your logic.

Ever hear of the candle that's twice as bright last half as long? That's what you're trying to say. But what you're not getting is it has nothing to do with your argument. Who says China has a finite supply of candle wax that has nothing to do with the rest of the world to which you think is only contained to China to which why it will run out. You know why you got it wrong? It's because China just signed a gas deal with Russia. According to how your logic would work is somehow China is only allowed to use what energy needs it has domestically to burn it out quicker.

Look, I get the jingoism. I really does. Good for you. But there's no such a thing as the thousand year reich. It's useless to predict the future. But often the best indication of future behaviour is past behaviour.

You would be the first person to denounce American exceptionalism. I hope you have enough insight to recognise your own Chinese exceptionalism when others point it out.