Chinese Economics Thread

[Eventine]

I don't think China will be facing a demographic invasion any time soon. even if you opened your borders. lol for one there is the langauge barrier which is a huge thing, secondly China is an alien civilisation for most of the world(apart from your East and some SEA neighbours), plus China is still the world second most populous country on earth with about 1.4 billion people(for perspective, that's about same as Africa's entire population), So even if 3 million foreigners moved to China that's like throwing a stone into the Ocean. lol In fact i believe there will always be more Chinese immigrants living outside China than there will be foreigners living in China. So i don't think you Chinese should be worried.

According to figures i checked there are barely over 900,000 foreigners nationals living in China (that's nothing. lol) that's the latest official figure available in 2020, i dont' think it would have changed by much in 5 years. but there are over 40 million chinese living outside China(this includes children of chinese immigrants though), but 10.5 million chinese born in china live overseas. So i don't think China should worry much about immigration.

I'm not worried about the effects of the immediate policy. I'm more concerned about the underlying philosophy it represents.

The policy of importing a lot of foreigners to do some specific type of work, that is perceived to be a gap in the native population, is not alien to Chinese history. Both times it happened, the outcome wasn't great (mentioned this else where so not going to repeat it, but basically "Five Barbarians" and "An Lushan Rebellion").

Of course, the numbers of people involved were much greater as a % of the population back then, but it shows that even with presumably culturally compatible Northeast Asian people who can "blend" into the population, China's record for peaceful assimilation wasn't great.

Chinese policy makers should not get high on the idea that China or Chinese culture has some unique ability to assimilate foreigners.

Americans thought that, until they didn't.

 

[uguduwa]

When it comes to Indians and demographics, I guess the status quo will stay for 10-15 years. India‘s standards of living are steadily rising and a lot of Indians are not stupid and see how people in other countries live and demand the same in their own country which you could see in Skyscrapercity forum. Once India reaches a certain level, outflow would slow down. At the moment, parts of India are rich enough that people can leave but not rich enough for Indians to stay. I also believe that the immigration problem would turn upside down more in favor of immigrants once certain countries are forced to deal with negative consenquences of low birth rate.

when it comes to demographic issues cominh from low birth rates though, they are a whole different kind of beast that the world has never seen before. I strongly believe that demographic problems would overtake climate change soon. The nature of this problem is that things look fine until they are not. We would probably see the first signs of this problem coming from places like South Korea.

Another angle to this problem is that there is not a single a country on earth that can provide new immigrants to meet the needs of India and China once they start having demographic problem. Entire countries would have to be emptied to satisfy their needs.

 

[uguduwa]

Also many people here don‘t seem to understand the US properly. The racists today are also the racists that existed mainly in the South since an eternity. America is probably the only country that has done a great job at assimilating wildly different ethnicities into one culture. Current problems are partially caused by minorities themselves. For example, Latino and Black men voted for DJT in large numbers and the reasons are mainly economic in nature packaged as some outlandish immigrant problem.

IMO, from my experience dealing with East Asians, I don‘t think immigration would ever work there. India ironically has a better chance at this than China since India has been a melting pot since the Indus Valley civilization (which worked for thousand of years) days. India even managed to absorb Greek cultural elements back in the day and would have no problem doing it in the future.

 

[august1]

I'm fine with Indian immigration as long it's pretty Indian girls of marital age willing to help fix China's demographic issues.

I'm opposed to immigration of foreign men that makes China's gender imbalance worse.

Lol you and I know it will be 90%+ males. And if you've ever lived anywhere where there are large Chinese + Indian communities living together like Vancouver or Toronto, you're going to have at least 10 times as many Indian male-Chinese female couples as the reverse.

 

[JayFalsum]

K

Also many people here don‘t seem to understand the US properly. The racists today are also the racists that existed mainly in the South since an eternity. America is probably the only country that has done a great job at assimilating wildly different ethnicities into one culture. Current problems are partially caused by minorities themselves. For example, Latino and Black men voted for DJT in large numbers and the reasons are mainly economic in nature packaged as some outlandish immigrant problem.

IMO, from my experience dealing with East Asians, I don‘t think immigration would ever work there. India ironically has a better chance at this than China since India has been a melting pot since the Indus Valley civilization (which worked for thousand of years) days. India even managed to absorb Greek cultural elements back in the day and would have no problem doing it in the future.

Melting pot? It’s not like India had much of a choice. Every time invaders came, the Indians rolled over. Otherwise, why would there be hundreds of millions of Muslims there today?

 

[PandaAI]

Nobody is opposed to automation and transitioning into high-value manufacturing. What people are against is replacing domestic labor with so-called "doctors" and "engineers" who looted, raped, and burned. The K-Visa requirements are vague and loose. It appears that the CCP is testing the waters to gauge the reaction to mass migration. Naturally, people should be nervous and suspicious. It’s not the first time the CCP has gone full retard, and Xi isn’t going to live long enough to deal with the consequences.

Immigration will cause major frictions within China that will inevitably weaken the popularity of the CPC. When foreigners are taking local jobs you will see a massive backlash as you’re seeing in the West.

 

[JayFalsum]

Immigration will cause major frictions within China that will inevitably weaken the popularity of the CPC. When foreigners are taking local jobs you will see a massive backlash as you’re seeing in the West.

Not just jobs, but also women, which would easily inflame a population that is already heavily skewed in terms of gender balance.

 

[PandaAI]

How to view China's recent rapid rollout of the K-visa.
This visa has sparked an uproar across Chinese social media in recent days, with near-unanimous opposition. The public fears Indians will flood in to replace Chinese workers.
This visa requires only a bachelor's degree, eliminates the need for domestic employer sponsorship, and permits multiple entries. Introducing such a far-reaching policy amid persistently high unemployment in China is baffling.
I share this negative stance and wonder how many illegal immigrants this will attract.

Limited number of STEM talent from Russia, Western Europe and East Asia is fine but to copy the policies of the Anglo countries by mass importing Indians will be disastrous for China. The entire immigration issue in the Anglo countries is an Indian immigration problem taking jobs from locals and outsourcing to India once Indians take over management positions. There is also the risk of technology and corporate secrets leaking. Immigration will be the biggest issue globally as people fight for scarce jobs. You will see anti-immigration skyrocket all over the world.

 

[manqiangrexue]

China's population is 1.408B, India's population is 1.46B. There isn't much difference, yet PRC has been able to feed, provide and educated its citizens better than India.

Your numbers come after the One Child Policy. You're basically saying it worked.

No, the lives lost due to a botched policy are not "worthy sacrifice", you have absolute no authority to decide which life is to be sacrified or not, particularly a child's.

The CCP has the authority and I agree with their decision. You have no authority to ask China to behave in any way.

When people break the law they do cause problems. It's the reason why an important part of law making is making sure that conditions are right for the proper effects to take place.

By that logic, all rapes and murders are the fault of the government because the conditions weren't right for people to follow the laws.

No, it wasn't either population control or none at all - TFR in 79' was 2.79, it fell from 5.81 in 1970, this was without OCP.

They calculated that it wasn't enough. That's their call, not yours.

Funny how you keep making comparison with India when the population is almost similar.

That's not "funny;" that's logical to compare with a similar population. They need to be comparable to compare. It'd be funny to compare totally different populations.

No, you would not have been India.

Saying that China could have ended up like India without proper controls is the biggest compliment you can recieve on this forum. Take it. Many think that Indians are funamentally lacking to ever be seriously compared to Chinese.

No, the party leadership fell for neo-malthusian takes coming out the west, during the same time, regarding too many Chinamen.

Just saying, "no" and repeating it doesn't make it true when I've debunked it.
1. China wanted to devote more resources to educating people rather than feeding people, so the population had to be controlled.
2. India didn't "fall for neo-malthusian" theories and it ended up a dump of poor uneducated people with triple China's population density so it shows that China's approach is correct.
3. You fell for Western propaganda blaming China in the face of its success.

Yes, China is a nation that should be looked up to - looking up to a nation does not mean ignoring or not correcting the mistakes made by that nation.

You don't judge something to be mistake or not to someone whom you recognize as your superior. Admire China's results? Those are our methods and we stand by them.

OCP - One Child Policy.

OK well I just did defend it.

Yes, India was relatively better than China post-ww2. No, western democracy wasn't just some "slop".

Yes it is. What works for them didn't work for you.

They were ahead in everything and our founders were keen on applying their principles to govern their compatriots. Yes, China maintained its own discipline and moved ahead and has indeed out competed the US in trade and tech wars.
How does all this relate to OCP? Current China is only because you implemented a botched population control policy?

You have trouble with reading comprehension? Current China is a result of many things including the successful OCP (though I think it could have been good to drop it sooner), which allowed for more invesment into education and improvement rather than population sustainence and India shows the disaster things become when sustainence takes too much.

No, Indians are not having a hard time deciding going back to India or killing themselves. Sure, H1 b hurts but no one is killing themselves over it, get your head our of reddit and twitter.

Hey, Indians said it, I read it, and that's it.

The CCP is defended by facts and so is the Indian Republic. Problems exist? Yes,they are being fixed. Slow? Yes, unfortunately.

Getting left back in the dust by a country India was once ahead of is a fact that defends India?

It's absolutely alright to get outcompeted, no need to commit seppuko over it. We Indians are here for quite a while and will remain here, had our ups and downs. History isn't ending anytime soon... we will make it. Of couse, we all wish for better life - not having it at the moment isn't something to be killing oneself about.

It's not about getting outcompeted; you got locked out by force from a country you thought was a shining example of democracy LOL. Sure, whatever you say. Some will keep fighting; some will be illegal immigrants; some will go back to India, and as some Indians say, some will kill themselves. They don't all do what you say.

I am not going to continue this discussion since this a wrong thread and I have to sleep, its fucking 2AM here.

Who cares that time it is and what you have to do? Am I harrassing you for a fast response or something? LOL

China should just focus on her own population. I think the K-visa issue is an unnecessary risk the party is taking which her people will be dissastisfied with. East Asian countries are very homogenous and anti migration. So the government should keep it that way. maybe a few decades from now when China's population has declined enough and ageing population has caused enough strained on the country, then maybe they can consider relaxing visas for workers since there will be shortages in some sectors, but until then its uneccessary to take this risk now. Once China is facing Japans current situation then it will be easier to justify this to her people.

It has nothing to do with population. It's literally hiring a few people to work, then go home. I don't understand why so many people think this is a call for mass migration, which I would definitely oppose, when it clearly states that if approved, they have 180 day periods over 5 years. This clearly means that if China's industry is lacking in some skills, qualified foreigners can be screened, brought in to supplement the deficiency and train locals, then they will go home.

 

[doggydogdo]