Chinese Economics Thread

Orthan

Senior Member
IMF says that china needs to reform its fiscal system.

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Does anyone here knows if the central government keeps track of all the debt that these sub-national entities that are refered in this article emit? They seem an awful lot. Wouldnt it be better if the central government collect more and distribute it to them?
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
No turnaround for Apple in China due to smartphone ‘saturation’: UBS

Apple's iPhone sales in China will not return to their peak levels anytime soon, according to one Wall Street analyst. UBS predicts Apple's iPhone sales growth in China will be roughly flat this fiscal year because consumers are waiting longer to upgrade to new phones and there is rising local competition. "We think it's doubtful China returns to its 2015 peak as local brands have caught up and upgrade cycles are lengthening," analyst Steven Milunovich wrote in a note to clients Monday. "Although industry experts see aspirational buying patterns, the market as a whole has begun to slow due to saturation and lengthening upgrade cycles.

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now I read
Private sector significant to Chinese economy: NBS
Xinhua| 2018-04-15 19:03:32
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The private sector has played a significant part in the long-term rapid development of the Chinese economy, the statistics authority has said.

The number of private industrial businesses with annual turnover over 20 million yuan (3.18 million U.S. dollars) stood at 222,000 in 2017, up 17.5 percent from five years ago and accounting for 57.7 percent of the total, according to National Bureau of Statistics (NBS).

The private sector made up 22.3 percent of total industrial assets by the end of 2017, up by 2.4 percentage points from 2012. Their main business incomes came in at 34.4 percent of the total, up by 3.7 percentage points from five years ago.

"The robust growth of private businesses has not only injected new vitality into the economy but played a key part in stabilizing employment," the NBS said. More than 32 million people worked in the private sector last year, accounting for 36.9 percent of the total, up from 32.6 percent in 2012.

The government has been unwavering in its support of the private sector since its reform and opening up 40 years ago, and has promised more efforts to improve the business environment, maintain stable policy expectations, and protect their rights and interests.

By the end of 2017, there were 2.86 million private businesses across the country.

Diverse market entities thrive in China. During the past five years, the country's average annual industrial output was up 7.4 percent, with state-owned enterprises (SOEs) up 4.3 percent, private businesses up 8.9 percent and foreign-funded firms up 5.9 percent.

Chinese SOEs gathered steam in strategic industries such as crude and coal but retreated in competitive sectors including food, textiles and medicine.

Combined assets of industrial SOEs saw an annual average growth rate of 6.4 percent from five years ago, reaching 42.5 trillion yuan at the end of 2017, accounting for 37.9 percent of the total, down from 40.6 percent in 2012.

The NBS data also showed that there were nearly 50,000 large foreign-funded companies by the end of 2017, with 22.5 trillion yuan of total assets and more than 20 million employees.
 
now I read
China's Q1 GDP grows 6.8 pct year on year
Xinhua| 2018-04-17 11:31:40
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The Chinese economy saw a solid start to the year with a 6.8-percent growth in the first quarter, official data showed Tuesday.

GDP reached 19.88 trillion yuan (about 3.2 trillion U.S. dollars) in the first three months of 2018, up 6.8 percent year on year at comparable prices, unchanged from the growth rate in the previous quarter, according to the National Bureau of Statistics (NBS).

"The economy is off to a good start," NBS spokesperson Xing Zhihong told a press conference, noting sound momentum in development, steady progress in upgrading, and improved quality and efficiency of the economy.

The GDP growth rate has stayed within the range of 6.7 percent to 6.9 percent for 11 quarters, with the jobless rate and inflation remaining stable, he said.

The country's foreign trade has become more balanced since the start of this year, with import growth outpacing exports and the trade surplus narrowing, according to Xing.

China's economy expanded 6.9 percent in 2017, picking up pace for the first time in seven years.
 

Orthan

Senior Member
I don't think so. It's different from an import ban but it means that ZTE will have to buy its components elsewhere (hopefully, Chinese manufacturers will rise to the challenge) or it will need the to make a front company to buy the US components to hand over to ZTE.

Its not that simple. Read these articles

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American parts are not easy to replace and ZTE needs them for its essencial components. As for the "front company" tactics, this is high-end stuff, this is not steel industry. There is much more control in this area.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Its not that simple. Read these articles

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American parts are not easy to replace and ZTE needs them for its essencial components. As for the "front company" tactics, this is high-end stuff, this is not steel industry. There is much more control in this area.

If you mean replacing qualcomm yeah Huawei has developed Kirin chipset so there is domestic equivalent
Yes China has been spending big billions since last year on new fabs in addition to chip design R&D and domestic semiconductor equipment R&D etc.

2017:
Tsinghua Unigroup to Invest $30 Billion in Nanjing Memory Fab, Increasing Total Fab Investment to $70 Billion
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China's Top Chipmaker Secures $22 Billion to Expand Globally
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Raising even more funds for 2018:
China Is Raising Up to $31.5 Billion to Fuel Chip Vision
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China gets big boost in semiconductor equipment localization
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I think in the long run this technology embargo is boon to China's domestic semiconductor now those company has no choice but to use domestic chip
Any way on different plane this is an excellent op/ed by George Koo
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Treating China as an adversary is not in America’s interest
By
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APRIL 17, 2018 2:24 PM (UTC+8)

A recent
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reveals that favorable American public opinion on China has finally climbed over 50%, albeit just barely. This is a remarkable development in light of the continued barrage of negative sentiments from American politicians and pundits.

Politicians with national ambitions seem to need to attack China as part of their résumé. US Senator
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is the latest example. It’s almost as if she took a trip to China just to criticize its human-rights record – and to earn a merit ribbon for her foreign-affairs credential.

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Must-reads from across Asia - directly to your inbox
Since she is supposed to be a progressive candidate for the American people, she could have spent her visit learning how China has taken hundreds of millions out of poverty and see if any of its techniques could be copied to help take Americans out of poverty – a domestic challenge in serious need of solution.

A common failing among political leaders in Washington is their being quick to criticize China while oblivious to gross human-rights violations at home.

Then there are those pundits who make a living by demonizing China. A glaring case in point is Gordon Chang, author of The Coming Collapse of China, published in 2001. In the US, he continues to get invited to pontificate in public. Outside of the country, his prediction of the collapse of China is seen itself to have collapsed.

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has run wild using Chang’s playbook and has produced books and documentaries that distort China and its trade policies based on exaggerations and outright fabrications.

Navarro’s colleagues at the University of California at Irvine can attest that he has no background or expertise on China. Professionally trained economists around the world look on his amateurish China-related writings with disdain. Even so, Navarro has ridden his China-bashing rhetoric to the inner circle of the White House.

Now that we are faced with threats of mutual economic disruption via a trade war, it’s time to weigh the costs and benefits of treating China as an adversary based on factual information instead of rants and exaggerated tweets.

Why China joined the WTO
China entered the World Trade Organization in 2001, having begun the application process some 15 years earlier. At the time, the size of China’s economy was less than 5% of that of the US. As a developing country, China was entitled under WTO rules to certain measures to protect its manufacturing industries.

The motivation for China to enter the WTO was to force its domestic industries to improve their manufacturing practices so as to compete in the global market. Contrary to implications from President Donald Trump’s announcements, being a member of the WTO did not give China any license to game the system.

Not without irony, it is the White House that is violating the US membership in WTO by arbitrarily and unilaterally threatening to raise tariffs against China.

In those early days, China insisted that in certain industries, for foreign companies to enter the country, the foreign company had to form a joint venture of which it owned no more than 50% and had to share the technology necessary for the JV to succeed.

That was China’s strategy to catch up by learning from the West. US companies did not have to enter the China market if they found those conditions unacceptable.

General Motors for one was very glad that it did. GM made more money on Buicks sold in China through its 50:50 JV than its total sales in the US, and this delayed having to declare bankruptcy. The import duty on foreign-made cars also helped GM in China. Even today, it continues to enjoy a higher margin on cars made and sold in China than in the US.

Lest anyone get the impression that China’s economic success depended on transfer of American technology, the total US investment in China has been far less than factories set up there by Hong Kong and Taiwanese businesses. These ethnic-Chinese businesspeople entered mainland China at least a decade before US companies, and they were the ones that introduced good manufacturing practices to China.

A trade war puts the US at a disadvantage
If the Trump team insists on launching a tariff war, it needs to understand that America will be at a disadvantage, simply because China does not have to buy commodities such as soybeans, pork and wine from the US. Other countries are eager to sell to China. You can think of China as a buyer’s market.

In contrast, if the US were to stop buying daily-use consumer goods from China, the American household would have to pay a lot more for imports from elsewhere. You can think of the US as a seller’s market.

There is no question that membership in the WTO has greatly helped China’s rise economically, because if a factory can’t compete, it goes out of business. Consequently China is a much stronger country than it was two or three decades ago.

Reliance on stolen intellectual property might have been important in the past, but China is now generating significant IP of its own. In some areas, such as fifth-generation mobile communications, robotics in manufacturing and artificial intelligence, China is already among the world leaders.

Threatening a trade war and other combative posturing will not deter China’s goal to become the strongest economy in the world. At the same time, China does not interfere with American elections or join in Middle East conflicts.

China goes out of its way not to pose a security threat to the US. A quick comparison should amply illustrate this point: The US Navy holds “freedom of navigation” exercises in the South China Sea. China has declined to reciprocate by conducting such exercises in the Caribbean.

To treat China as an adversary is a misuse of the US federal budget, takes attention away from genuinely urgent issues in other parts of the world and gives up any opportunity to collaborate with China in ways that could spell real benefits for the American people.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Its not that simple. Read these articles

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American parts are not easy to replace and ZTE needs them for its essencial components. As for the "front company" tactics, this is high-end stuff, this is not steel industry. There is much more control in this area.
Those articles simply lay out what the US hopes to achieve but they provide no details as to how that would happen. But from what we have seen in the Intel chip ban, what the US hopes to achieve and what actually unravels are often opposite especially in regards to China.

I realize these are essential components but to the best of my knowledge, there are no technologies here that are monopolized by the US without any alternatives. If you think there are, could you list the exact components that you think ZTE could have no foreign alternatives to?

There might be more control than steel but I don't know if it is at a level where they could not sell to front companies for ZTE posing as small start-up companies. After all, ZTE accounted for some 30% of these companies' revenue and they will want to find loopholes to sell since their stock tanked some 35% yesterday. If you think the level of control is such that this could not be done, could you show me the rules that would thwart this?
 
China Focus: China's housing prices remain stable amid tough purchase restrictions
Xinhua| 2018-04-18 17:33:26
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Housing prices remained largely stable in major Chinese cities in March amid tough government purchase restrictions.

As the government maintained purchase restrictions aimed at containing speculative demand, new home prices softened in the country's first-tier cities, the National Bureau of Statistics (NBS) said Wednesday.

New house prices in first-tier cities declined 0.6 percent year-on-year last month, while prices of existing houses in these cities went down 0.1 percent year on year.

The property market in second-tier cities is also showing signs of slower growth, with the year-on-year growth of new house prices sliding 0.2 percentage points from a month earlier.

New house prices went down on a yearly basis in nine of the 15 major cities considered the "hottest markets." On a month-on-month basis, new house prices fell in seven of the 15 cities, while Tianjin and Hefei saw home prices flat with February.

"Housing prices were generally stable as market controls have continued to take effect," said NBS statistician Liu Jianwei.

The data came after the NBS released Tuesday that China's investment in property development expanded 10.4 percent year-on-year in the first quarter of the year, accelerating from an increase of 7 percent registered in 2017.

Total investment in the real estate sector stood at 2.13 trillion yuan (339.2 billion U.S. dollars) in the first quarter, according to the NBS.

"The double digit growth beat market expectations," said Xia Dan, senior researcher of the Bank of Communications, noting that the construction of rental housing and affordable housing partly contributed to the growth.

During previous years, rocketing housing prices, especially in major cities, had fueled concerns about asset bubbles. To curb speculation, local governments passed or expanded their restrictions on house purchases and increased minimum downpayments required for mortgages.

In addition, China is moving faster to implement a long-term mechanism for property regulation that ensures supply through multiple sources, provides housing support through multiple channels, and encourages both housing purchases and rentals.

This year's government work report reiterated that "houses are for living in, not speculation."

"We will support people in buying homes for personal use, and develop the housing rental market and shared ownership housing," the work report said.

So far, 51 state-owned home renting companies have been set up in 12 pilot cities, where government-led rental management and service platforms were established.

For 2018, the government vowed to maintain stability and consistency of property regulatory policies and accelerate establishing the long-term mechanism for real estate regulation.

"China will not waver in its efforts to implement property market regulation and will maintain continuity and stability of policies in 2018," said Wang Menghui, minister of housing and urban-rural development.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Those articles simply lay out what the US hopes to achieve but they provide no details as to how that would happen. But from what we have seen in the Intel chip ban, what the US hopes to achieve and what actually unravels are often opposite especially in regards to China.

I realize these are essential components but to the best of my knowledge, there are no technologies here that are monopolized by the US without any alternatives. If you think there are, could you list the exact components that you think ZTE could have no foreign alternatives to?

There might be more control than steel but I don't know if it is at a level where they could not sell to front companies for ZTE posing as small start-up companies. After all, ZTE accounted for some 30% of these companies' revenue and they will want to find loopholes to sell since their stock tanked some 35% yesterday. If you think the level of control is such that this could not be done, could you show me the rules that would thwart this?
As for Qualcomm chips, they can be replaced, Mediatek's chips have been used by many phones. Some phone manufactories (at least a Chinese one) produce different variant of the same phone with Qualcomm or Mediatek chips. Mediatek ones being slightly lower in performance and cheaper.

As Hendrik suggested Huawei's Kirin chips, it will have nothing to do with ZTE. Huawei is UNLIKELY to supply its Kirin chips to ZTE. It is not matter of helping fellow Chinese, it is business competition. Neither is Chinese government going to press Huawei for that. Both are Chinese companies.

ZTE is probably on itself to sort this out. Mediatek would be the most viable solution. Actually ZTE makes at least one phone using Mediatek. The only problem for ZTE is redesign work for those Qualcomm based phones. It will cost and hurt ZTE, but far from crippling. The ban will stop new production of existing models based on Qualcomm chips, it will not stop the already produced phones. ZTE just need to replace Qualcomm chip for the upcoming models for next year.

In the end, it is very much like the ban on Intel Pi chip, nothing critical, small damage for half year delay.

Note, this is only analysis of phone chips.
 

bluewater2012

Junior Member
ZTE Seeks Fix With U.S. Ban Threatening Access to Android
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executives are evaluating software options for the company’s smartphones after a U.S. technology ban threatened to cut off the operating system at the heart of its devices, a person with knowledge of the matter said.

The Android operating system, designed by Google, is the core of ZTE smartphones, powering user-facing functions, apps, and other services. That means the software likely falls under Monday’s
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denying China’s ZTE access to American technology for seven years. Trading in ZTE shares was suspended in Hong Kong soon after the announcement.

ZTE lawyers have been meeting with Google officials about the issue, according to the person. They asked not to be identified talking about private discussions. Google and ZTE declined to comment.

The U.S.
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stated that ZTE can’t "participate in any way in any transaction involving any commodity, software or technology... exported or to be exported from the United States." That includes licenses, the typical way software is used.

Losing access to Android would be a major blow for ZTE because there are few alternatives. Microsoft Corp. and HP Inc. no longer offer smartphone operating systems, Apple’s iOS is exclusive to its own devices, and ZTE doesn’t have its own operating system. The only possible alternative is Samsung’s Tizen, which hasn’t taken off and only supports a few apps.

For Alphabet Inc.’s Google, losing ZTE as an Android handset maker wouldn’t be critical given the Chinese company’s small market share. However, Google has been losing control of what some Android handset makers put on their devices. Samsung, the largest Android manufacturer, has introduced its own mobile services, such as a voice assistant, that compete with Google services. In response, Google has relied more heavily on Chinese manufacturers like ZTE, Huawei Technologies Co. and Xiaomi Corp.
 
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