Chinese Economics Thread

Equation

Lieutenant General
Monthly data useless, the new year celebration started in January in 2017, and in 2018 it started in February.

I used the yars, quaterly and rolling 12 month data, all of them showing the changin trend.



Trade surpluss robing market demand and employment from teh deficit country. Means the elimination of it will generate employment.

This was the reason why Keynes sugested international system to ballance the payments betweeon countries, however the US run trade suprluss at that time, and the political decision makers was agaisnt this idea.
So, simle sanity check , what YOU think about the view of Keynes about trade wars?

Who is the benefician of it?



Simply plotting the past trend into the future is the most basic failure that anyone can makes.
at the moment the Chinese consumer debt ,car sales number and so on on the same level that caused ten years long depression in several eastern european country.

The debt growing by 5% in each year , so it only a matter of time to hit any freely chosen critical level, spanish, hungarian,japan,american,brazilian or whaever you chhoose.


Of course, and the US house prices historically never falled, so it won't fall ever : D

Suprise, suprise ,it behaved like falling stone in 2008 : D
Every bubble needs a faith element.

Practically everyone lost his sanity about the Chinese ecnomy, reached the level of " it will walk on water".

Like as it happened in the roarring 20s, in the 80s in Japan, in spain between 2001-2008, in Austria before the Creditanstalt.

Every bubble last longer then your sanity : )

Rolling data says Chinese car production INCREASED from 2016 to 2017. Comparing specific Jan. 2016 vs. Jan. 2017 data is useless just like monthly data. Compare AT LEAST the whole year. Honestly, even if it decline for 1 year, it still is a fluctuation. If it declines for 3 years continuously, I would say that is a trend. Before that, it is a fluctuation.

The beneficiary is everybody in trade because these deals were always made willingly. What I think? I think you said something stupid and cannot find evidence again so you ask what other people think to change the topic again LOL

The most basic failure that anyone makes is betting against the Chinese economy. It makes you ALWAYS wrong haha. Or maybe the most basic failure is imagining reasons for others to fail because you yourself cannot succeed. I don't know which is more basic; they are both yours.

Looking at a trend to guess the future is what every financial institution does; believe me: they are not more basic than you. Besides, if you think that using the past to judge the future is a "basic failure" then how can you try to use the past of other countries to judge the future of China's economy? It would be magnitudes more of a failure. You cannot even agree with your own logic, further evidencing that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Japan, Spain, Austria can never achieve what China has; their faults have nothing to do with China. USA is also not China. However, the "falling stone" has reversed as the US economy has recovered after 2008... can't say the same for Europe though but losers always mention the faults of the winners to make themselves feel better. So even if China's "bubble" "bursts," don't worry. It's just another obstacle that China will surmount, like every other one China has since 1949. I like very much that you think "everyone" has lost their sanity over the excellent performance of the Chinese economy. When you think that everyone else is crazy and that you are the only sane one, that means that crazy one is you. You understand that, right? You can't think that the whole world is crazy except you, right? Haha I don't know; maybe crazy people do think that; that's why the sane people of this forum have difficulty communicating with a crazy person like yourself.

In any case, what is your point? I need to see numbers. This conversation is stupid because you are picking micro-data and using that to insinuate some impending doom for China's economy that is non-specific in nature nor in time. When asked what you expect for China's economy for 2018, you say on-target growth (because you clearly have no confidence in any negative predictions of China's economy either).So once again, you are wasting everyone's time with garbage that you pull out of your bottom because everyone here, including you, knows that China's economy is still very much climbing. When that is not true, and you are willing to bet that China's GDP will decline the next year, then come back and make that interesting bet. Before then, you're just babbling incoherent hatred stemming from your jealousy.
 
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now I read
China doesn't want trade war with U.S.: commerce minister
Xinhua| 2018-03-11 11:53:15
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China doesn't want a trade war with the United States and will not start one, but can handle any related challenges and will defend national and Chinese people's interests,Minister of Commerce Zhong Shan said Sunday.

Trade wars leave no winners, only disastrous outcomes for the two countries and the rest of the world, Zhong told a press conference on the sidelines of the first session of the 13th National People's Congress.

The United States side formally declared to impose 25 percent tariffs on steel imports and 10 percent on aluminum Thursday, with initial exemptions for Canada and Mexico, saying such results could be made for other countries through negotiations.

Zhong pointed out that different statistical methods widen U.S. trade deficit with China by around 20 percent, citing the research of a joint work group tracking and comparing the two countries' trade figures.

China's trade surplus with the United States grew 13 percent year on year to 1.87 trillion yuan last year, official data showed.

Trade imbalance between the two countries is structural, with China exporting more commodities to the Unites States while importing more services, Zhong said, adding that trade competitiveness is determined by industries.

U.S. control of high-tech exports to China also contributed to bilateral trade imbalance, Zhong said, quoting one U.S. research report which estimated a 35-percent fall in trade deficit with China if the United States relaxed export restrictions.

Zhong said the two countries have different demands in opening up markets in financial, telecom, automobile, produce and other sectors due to different national conditions.

Different views on Internet security and intellectual property rights also impact bilateral trade and investment, he added.

The two sides haven't halted economic dialogues and will continue the exchanges, the minister stressed.

Liu He, a senior Chinese economic and financial official met with U.S. officials earlier this month and they have agreed that the two countries should settle their trade disputes by cooperation rather than confrontation.

The two sides also agreed to talk about related issues in Beijing in the near future, aiming to create conditions for further cooperation.

"It's a good thing. No one wants a trade war and it serves nobody's interests," Zhong said.

China would like to solve differences via cooperation and seek win-win outcomes to benefit the two countries and help stabilize global economy, he added.
 
now I read
China aims to become major high quality trading power
2018-03-11 15:00 GMT+8
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By sticking to innovation and promoting high-quality development, China aims to become a strong trading power in all respects by 2050, Chinese Commerce Minister Zhong Shan said on Sunday.

Judging by the leading indicators for consumption, trade, foreign direct investment and overseas direct investment, China is a big country in economics and trade, but it is far from being a strong trader, said Zhong Shan, Chinese Commerce Minister, at a press conference on the sidelines of the annual legislative session.

The minister said in order to become a strong trading power, China must follow the path of innovation-driven and high-quality development.

Zhong outlined one goal, six major tasks and eight action plans that need to be completed in the coming five years to make China a strong trading power in the world.

"The goal is to strive to make the country a strong trading power ahead of schedule; further consolidate the status as a big trading power before 2020 and basically become a strong trading power before 2035 and a true strong trading power in all respects before 2050," he said.

In the coming five years, there are six tasks to fulfill: Strengthen the fundamental function of consumption in economic growth; improve the competitiveness of foreign trade; boost two-way investment levels; optimize regional opening-up pattern; form new international economic and trade relations, and make commerce activities better serve people's livelihood.

Accordingly, China has also made eight action plans, which include upgrading consumption, investing in innovation, cooperating under the Belt and Road Initiative, as well as cooperating in multilateral regional economic and trade cooperation.
 
on this occasion I'll make a personal comment: I love forests
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Toward a greener China: 7.36 million hectares of new forests created in China last year, up 8.46%. The country aims to expand its forest coverage ratio to more than 23% by 2020 to combat
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and soil erosion.

DYDavEuVwAA7SJN.jpg
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
on this occasion I'll make a personal comment: I love forests
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Toward a greener China: 7.36 million hectares of new forests created in China last year, up 8.46%. The country aims to expand its forest coverage ratio to more than 23% by 2020 to combat
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
and soil erosion.

DYDavEuVwAA7SJN.jpg

As I've previously stated, they need to account for biodiversity when planting the trees as well. Single species forests are vulnerable to disease and can't support local fauna as well.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Not too long ago the western press use pollution as cudgel to hit china.Now that China is winning the war against pollution very few mention it
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Four Years After Declaring War on Pollution, China Is Winning

Research gives estimates on the longer lives that are now possible in the country.

By Michael Greenstone

March 12, 2018
On March 4, 2014, the Chinese premier, Li Keqiang,
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almost 3,000 delegates at the National People’s Congress and many more watching live on state television, “We will resolutely declare war against pollution as we declared war against poverty.”

The statement broke from the country’s longstanding policy of putting economic growth over environment, and many wondered whether China would really follow through.

Four years after that declaration, the data is in: China is winning, at record pace. In particular, cities have cut concentrations of fine particulates in the air by 32 percent on average, in just those four years.

The speed of the anti-pollution drive has raised
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
about its human costs. But if China sustains these reductions, recent research by my colleagues and me indicates that residents will see significant improvements to their health, extending their life spans by months or years.

How did China get here? In the months before the premier’s speech, the country released a national air quality action plan that required all urban areas to reduce concentrations of fine particulate matter pollution by at least 10 percent, more in some cities. The Beijing area was required to reduce pollution by 25 percent, and the city set aside an astounding
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
for that purpose.


To reach these targets, China prohibited new coal-fired power plants in the country’s most polluted regions, including the Beijing area. Existing plants were told to reduce their emissions. If they didn’t, the coal was replaced with natural gas. Large cities, including Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou, restricted the number of cars on the road. The country also reduced its iron- and steel-making capacity and shut down
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.

Some of the actions went from aggressive to extraordinary. For example, the ministry of environmental protection released a 143-page “battle plan” last summer that included removing the coal boilers many homes and businesses used for winter heating — even though replacements were not yet available everywhere. This left some homeowners, businesses and
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
without heat this winter.

Over the past few months,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
began to trickle in that the efforts were working. So I decided to dig deeper. Using data from almost 250 government monitors throughout the country, which closely matches monitors maintained by the United States embassy in Beijing and consulates around the country, I found major improvements.

Although most regions outpaced their targets, the most populated cities had some of the greatest declines. Beijing’s readings on concentrations of fine particulates declined by 35 percent; Hebei Province’s capital city, Shijiazhuang, cut its concentration by 39 percent; and Baoding,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
China’s most polluted city in 2015, reduced its concentration by 38 percent.

To investigate the effects on people’s lives in China, I used two of my studies (more
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
and
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
) to convert the fine particulate concentrations into their effect on life spans. This is the same method that underlies the Air Quality-Life Index that can be explored
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. These studies are based on data from China, so they don’t require extrapolation from the United States or some other country with relatively low concentrations of pollution.

The results suggest that China’s fight against pollution has already laid the foundation for extraordinary gains in life expectancy. Applying this method to the available data from 204 prefectures, residents nationally could expect to live 2.4 years longer on average if the declines in air pollution persisted.

The roughly 20 million residents in Beijing would live an estimated 3.3 years longer, while those in Shijiazhuang would add 5.3 years, and those in Baoding 4.5 years. Notably, my research suggests that these improvements in life expectancy would be experienced by people of all ages, not just the young and old.

To put the astounding scale and speed of China’s recent progress in context, it’s useful to think back to the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in the 1950s and 1960s, especially in the Rust Belt.

The U.S. Clean Air Act is widely regarded as having produced large reductions in air pollution. In the four years after its 1970 enactment, American air pollution declined by 20 percent on average. But it took about a dozen years and the 1981-1982 recession for the United States to achieve the 32 percent reduction China has achieved in just four years.

Of course, air pollution levels still exceed China’s own standards and far surpass World Health Organization recommendations for what is considered safe. Bringing all of China into compliance with its own standards would increase average life expectancies by an additional 1.7 years (as measured in the areas where data is available). Complying with the stricter World Health Organization standards instead would yield 4.1 years.

ADVERTISEMENT

Whether Chinese citizens can expect to capture these additional improvements — and even sustain the existing gains — comes back to the balance between economic growth and environmental quality. China’s early reductions in air pollution have been achieved through an engineering-style fiat that dictates specific actions, rather than relying on markets to find the least expensive methods to reduce pollution.

It’s an approach that has come with some real costs — as the many people left without heat this winter could attest. Yet further improvements will also be much costlier than necessary if they too are pursued by fiat, particularly with many of the easier fixes having already been made.

In the decades after enactment of the Clean Air Act, American policymakers have used many tools to reduce pollution, with market-based regulations having proved the most cost-effective. Although China is experimenting with a cap-and-trade system for carbon dioxide, it has not yet turned to such policies to fight conventional pollution.

It would be quite a twist if so-called Communist China ultimately wins the war against pollution by embracing market-based regulations, while the United States continues to use them only intermittently.

For a detailed analysis of the calculations in this piece, the technical document is
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. A report with a fuller set of calculations is
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.
 
As I've previously stated, they need to account for biodiversity when planting the trees as well. Single species forests are vulnerable to disease
I know what you mean, in the region where I grew up
(which is basically tri-border area of Czech Rep., Poland and Slovakia)
forestry has begun a quarter of millennium ago,
under
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who ordered
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to be planted "everywhere" (some
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for a change)
LOL I don't blame her, just there's
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issue,
plus every "acre" is recorded, so the forests there aren't like wild with fallen trees, actually they have a network of forest tracks, and ...

and can't support local fauna as well.
fauna: rabbits and deer put there by hunters

I veered off topic LOL as I said, I love forests (all of them EDIT I guess: haven't been to too many forest types)
 
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siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Not too long ago the western press use pollution as cudgel to hit china.Now that China is winning the war against pollution very few mention it
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Four Years After Declaring War on Pollution, China Is Winning

Research gives estimates on the longer lives that are now possible in the country.

By Michael Greenstone

March 12, 2018
On March 4, 2014, the Chinese premier, Li Keqiang,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
almost 3,000 delegates at the National People’s Congress and many more watching live on state television, “We will resolutely declare war against pollution as we declared war against poverty.”

The statement broke from the country’s longstanding policy of putting economic growth over environment, and many wondered whether China would really follow through.

Four years after that declaration, the data is in: China is winning, at record pace. In particular, cities have cut concentrations of fine particulates in the air by 32 percent on average, in just those four years.

The speed of the anti-pollution drive has raised
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
about its human costs. But if China sustains these reductions, recent research by my colleagues and me indicates that residents will see significant improvements to their health, extending their life spans by months or years.

How did China get here? In the months before the premier’s speech, the country released a national air quality action plan that required all urban areas to reduce concentrations of fine particulate matter pollution by at least 10 percent, more in some cities. The Beijing area was required to reduce pollution by 25 percent, and the city set aside an astounding
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
for that purpose.


To reach these targets, China prohibited new coal-fired power plants in the country’s most polluted regions, including the Beijing area. Existing plants were told to reduce their emissions. If they didn’t, the coal was replaced with natural gas. Large cities, including Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou, restricted the number of cars on the road. The country also reduced its iron- and steel-making capacity and shut down
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.

Some of the actions went from aggressive to extraordinary. For example, the ministry of environmental protection released a 143-page “battle plan” last summer that included removing the coal boilers many homes and businesses used for winter heating — even though replacements were not yet available everywhere. This left some homeowners, businesses and
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
without heat this winter.

Over the past few months,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
began to trickle in that the efforts were working. So I decided to dig deeper. Using data from almost 250 government monitors throughout the country, which closely matches monitors maintained by the United States embassy in Beijing and consulates around the country, I found major improvements.

Although most regions outpaced their targets, the most populated cities had some of the greatest declines. Beijing’s readings on concentrations of fine particulates declined by 35 percent; Hebei Province’s capital city, Shijiazhuang, cut its concentration by 39 percent; and Baoding,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
China’s most polluted city in 2015, reduced its concentration by 38 percent.

To investigate the effects on people’s lives in China, I used two of my studies (more
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
and
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
) to convert the fine particulate concentrations into their effect on life spans. This is the same method that underlies the Air Quality-Life Index that can be explored
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. These studies are based on data from China, so they don’t require extrapolation from the United States or some other country with relatively low concentrations of pollution.

The results suggest that China’s fight against pollution has already laid the foundation for extraordinary gains in life expectancy. Applying this method to the available data from 204 prefectures, residents nationally could expect to live 2.4 years longer on average if the declines in air pollution persisted.

The roughly 20 million residents in Beijing would live an estimated 3.3 years longer, while those in Shijiazhuang would add 5.3 years, and those in Baoding 4.5 years. Notably, my research suggests that these improvements in life expectancy would be experienced by people of all ages, not just the young and old.

To put the astounding scale and speed of China’s recent progress in context, it’s useful to think back to the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in the 1950s and 1960s, especially in the Rust Belt.

The U.S. Clean Air Act is widely regarded as having produced large reductions in air pollution. In the four years after its 1970 enactment, American air pollution declined by 20 percent on average. But it took about a dozen years and the 1981-1982 recession for the United States to achieve the 32 percent reduction China has achieved in just four years.

Of course, air pollution levels still exceed China’s own standards and far surpass World Health Organization recommendations for what is considered safe. Bringing all of China into compliance with its own standards would increase average life expectancies by an additional 1.7 years (as measured in the areas where data is available). Complying with the stricter World Health Organization standards instead would yield 4.1 years.

ADVERTISEMENT

Whether Chinese citizens can expect to capture these additional improvements — and even sustain the existing gains — comes back to the balance between economic growth and environmental quality. China’s early reductions in air pollution have been achieved through an engineering-style fiat that dictates specific actions, rather than relying on markets to find the least expensive methods to reduce pollution.

It’s an approach that has come with some real costs — as the many people left without heat this winter could attest. Yet further improvements will also be much costlier than necessary if they too are pursued by fiat, particularly with many of the easier fixes having already been made.

In the decades after enactment of the Clean Air Act, American policymakers have used many tools to reduce pollution, with market-based regulations having proved the most cost-effective. Although China is experimenting with a cap-and-trade system for carbon dioxide, it has not yet turned to such policies to fight conventional pollution.

It would be quite a twist if so-called Communist China ultimately wins the war against pollution by embracing market-based regulations, while the United States continues to use them only intermittently.

For a detailed analysis of the calculations in this piece, the technical document is
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. A report with a fuller set of calculations is
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.

Part of that stems from the fact that many Western countries simply exported heavy industry and the accompanied pollution to China. Now that China is rich enough to cut down industrial capacity and move on to higher quality work, pollution is going down as well.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Interesting op ed by professor Zhang Weiwei "How can a sick man cure another sick man". If you guy find it too political feel free to delete it But interesting exercise in political discourse which underline any economic system. I thought he hit the nail here
Now a lot of people complaining about the lack of response from China when it come to false narrative Well you see here they are not sitting still They hit back!
Good to see China is now on the offensive and not sit still to become the punching bag

Zhang Weiwei is a Chinese professor of international relations at Fudan University, and a senior research fellow at the Chunqiu Institute. He is the author of The China Wave: Rise of a Civilizational State. The Chinese Way by Zhang Weiwei is a 10-part CGTN Digital series casting a critical eye over the governance of modern China. Professor Zhang identifies merits and flaws in the Chinese system and contrasts the China model with Western equivalents in a series of short films.
The three ‘genetic defects’ of the Western model
 
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