Chinese Economics Thread

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
How many hundreds of millions had the EU "country" uplifted out of poverty like China has and how many hundreds of millions MORE became middle class status? Remember EU "country" can't even handle a massive influx of Middle Easter and North African immigrants because of their countries are being ravaged by the regime changing ways? Oh yeah and don't forget a large growing right wing Nazi groups are voicing their concern about all of these immigrants taking away their benefits and entitlements.


I don't want to hurt your patriotic feelings, but that hundred millions was in poverty dur to the thousands years old Chinese culture and governance.


Mao recognised it, and that the Chinese way of life is a dead end ( it wasn't that hard after hundred years of humilitation from small european countries) and started to destroy the old China to make something more competitive.

It was a partial disaster and partial succes, claiming millions of life, but this is the issue if you have one bg, homogen country, centraly controled, not dozens of small experiments next to each other, learning from each success ( and failure).

Europe is undoubtly the most succesfull from every standoint in the past thousand years from all civilizations.

If I walk around the world I can talk with every country using european languages, in America practicaly all county main language came from Europe, and the most succesfull countries has european setlers (like USA). I can read the Chinee engineering drawings, because they using the rules developed by Europeans .
I drive regulary next to the birthplace/living place/alma mater ofthe naming persons of the SI unites.

China started to be succesfull when it started to learn European law,scence, technology and trade. That pulled out from the poverty hundred millions of Chinese.



You are welcome : )
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
I'm sorry; I gave you too much credit again, assuming you could stop being wrong all the time.

No it's not. It's smaller than the US. 28 European economies of the EU combined have a smaller nominal GDP than the US and smaller PPP than China.
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And they're set to lose the UK, one of the biggest economies in the EU, real soon.

I previously mentioned all different kinds of slow (growth) in the EU but it's actually more like:

backwards
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sideways
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and dancing
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You'd best get that fixed before you go out giving economic advice about "efficiency" LOL. Until then, you can watch China add 12 digit numbers to its GDP on an annual basis.
My mistake, I haven't checked the GDP for a whle, it going up and down.

Generaly, the screwed up EU structure causing the slow growth in many countries.

As soon as the EU disintegrating, OR changing the structure / financing this block will disapear.

And anyway, don't foget, China just started the walk the europe(usa) walking for hundred years : )

It doesn't take too much effort to manage an economy/ country/ social stability during the high growth : )
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
Haha, the EU is a grandpa economy, only big because it is almost 30 countries combined. That's like you claim to be the best boxer in the world because when Mayweather gets in the ring alone, you try to bring 30 friends with you


It works a bit diferently , this nations state thingy is a new development. In europe the countries used to be organised around sphere of infulence, controling different nationalities and languages, not as pure nation state.

Now with the EU it is changing back, only issue is the EU seriously flawed organisation.
I work now with polish /english/spanish/portugese/slovakian/french/russian (he is a lithuanian citizen : D ) and so on persons. Nice, isn't it? Like in the old times of the 19th century.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
I don't want to hurt your patriotic feelings, but that hundred millions was in poverty dur to the thousands years old Chinese culture and governance.


Mao recognised it, and that the Chinese way of life is a dead end ( it wasn't that hard after hundred years of humilitation from small european countries) and started to destroy the old China to make something more competitive.

It was a partial disaster and partial succes, claiming millions of life, but this is the issue if you have one bg, homogen country, centraly controled, not dozens of small experiments next to each other, learning from each success ( and failure).

Europe is undoubtly the most succesfull from every standoint in the past thousand years from all civilizations.

If I walk around the world I can talk with every country using european languages, in America practicaly all county main language came from Europe, and the most succesfull countries has european setlers (like USA). I can read the Chinee engineering drawings, because they using the rules developed by Europeans .
I drive regulary next to the birthplace/living place/alma mater ofthe naming persons of the SI unites.

China started to be succesfull when it started to learn European law,scence, technology and trade. That pulled out from the poverty hundred millions of Chinese.



You are welcome : )
Well, for those thousands of years, there was no definition of poverty and no data so your claims are in the dump as usual.

Otherwise, I would say, all civilizations have their ups and downs. For some time, Europe was, as you said, dominant in science, technology, trade. Before then, China was dominant; gunpowder, compass, paper, printing. You're welcome.

Then, Europe took over. And now, Europe is in the gutters again. So as I said, Europe is like an old man, reveling in the past because its modern day and foreseeable future is sad.

My mistake, I haven't checked the GDP for a whle, it going up and down.

Generaly, the screwed up EU structure causing the slow growth in many countries.

As soon as the EU disintegrating, OR changing the structure / financing this block will disapear.

And anyway, don't foget, China just started the walk the europe(usa) walking for hundred years : )

It doesn't take too much effort to manage an economy/ country/ social stability during the high growth : )
It you think EU growth is high/fast, then you haven't checked GDP in many years. And it only goes up and down in Europe. In China, it goes up and up and more up. I don't care what you blame it on; get it fixed before you lecture others.

China's just started walking but it's already walking so much faster and better. I guess we're fast learners, but the most important thing is China's system is not European or American; it is a combination of all the things that work put together with a Chinese characteristic.
It works a bit diferently , this nations state thingy is a new development. In europe the countries used to be organised around sphere of infulence, controling different nationalities and languages, not as pure nation state.

Now with the EU it is changing back, only issue is the EU seriously flawed organisation.
I work now with polish /english/spanish/portugese/slovakian/french/russian (he is a lithuanian citizen : D ) and so on persons. Nice, isn't it? Like in the old times of the 19th century.
I don't care. Blah blah excuses. Sounds like European style to me LOL. All I see is poor results. You think you can "change back"? Show it, don't dream it.

I don't care who the hell you work with. Sounds terrible, absolute nightmare. I like to work with all Chinese, so we speak the same language, share the same culture, and fight for the same goal. That's what I call nice.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
I don't want to hurt your patriotic feelings, but that hundred millions was in poverty dur to the thousands years old Chinese culture and governance.


Mao recognised it, and that the Chinese way of life is a dead end ( it wasn't that hard after hundred years of humilitation from small european countries) and started to destroy the old China to make something more competitive.

It was a partial disaster and partial succes, claiming millions of life, but this is the issue if you have one bg, homogen country, centraly controled, not dozens of small experiments next to each other, learning from each success ( and failure).

Europe is undoubtly the most succesfull from every standoint in the past thousand years from all civilizations.

If I walk around the world I can talk with every country using european languages, in America practicaly all county main language came from Europe, and the most succesfull countries has european setlers (like USA). I can read the Chinee engineering drawings, because they using the rules developed by Europeans .
I drive regulary next to the birthplace/living place/alma mater ofthe naming persons of the SI unites.

China started to be succesfull when it started to learn European law,scence, technology and trade. That pulled out from the poverty hundred millions of Chinese.



You are welcome : )

European success started when Marco Polo came back with a bunch of Chinese inventions to build the West. It is China's determination, hard work, intelligence and resilience that made them successful today. European economy revolves around China today. Sorry but China today will never adapt to your fake democracy and Judeo-Christian values that you hold so dear and worry that a rising China will end it.
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
I get a bit sick of the discussion about retail sales, household consumption and so on, so I went after the car sales/ productin data ( I have a quite good source of up to date detailed data on this field.)

So , it is quite interesting . let say.
Chinese cars sales, 2017 : 24.2million, production : 29.2 , so 5 million going to export ( or piling up at the back yard of manufacturers)
car production growth, 12 month , year over year :
15-16 : 14%
16-17:4.15%

Shocking is the 2017 data contain a bump of +30k truck/bus compared to 2016, means the corrected pasanger car production data is around 3%.

These numbers are poor compared to usa/japan/iran/russia .

And if the GDP growth is 6% then the 3% car sale growth ( if it is correlated with consumption) means that the consumption share from GDP DECREASING.


Other interesting data:

car average age in US is 14 years, if China wants to get the same age of vehicle fleet then it need rouhly 8-9 years to do that .

In that case the person / car will be 3.5 for China, versus 1.78 in the UK.

Means that at that point of time China should have 50% of the UK per person GDP, IF the consumption level grow to the same level like UK and IF the car manufacturing not growing and IF we expecting that the need of cars is on the same level in China like in the UK.

So, two way.

1. China car manufacturing change direction ,and start to grwo by 10 % ( consumption is 40% ,so it means that the GDP growth will have 4 percent boost from it) and in that case the growth can stop in seven years time, and the per capita GDP will be the same leve like UK due to same miracel, considering that the .
But it need 10 % growth in the GDP as well ( PPP chinese per capitagdp is 14000 vs 38000 UK) means the investment /export has to grow faster. It doesn't ad up actualy : D
2. Chinese consumption grwoth hit the brick wall in 2017, and now the decision makers opening up the loan gates to rop up the SOEs and the whole investment business.
 

PiSigma

"the engineer"
European success started when Marco Polo came back with a bunch of Chinese inventions to build the West. It is China's determination, hard work, intelligence and resilience that made them successful today. European economy revolves around China today. Sorry but China today will never adapt to your fake democracy and Judeo-Christian values that you hold so dear and worry that a rising China will end it.
Don't argue with trolls. Europe is not a real entity. You have success stories like Germany, then you got basket cases like Greece. No need to lump them together.

The funny thing is, the colonies he is so proud of are all descend from countries in the gutter these days (not so united kingdom, and losing Catalonia Spain).

Modern society's inventions are mostly american contributions, Europe after ww2 ate just riding on US coat tails and wants credit. US is not Europe!
 

broadsword

Brigadier
Don't argue with trolls. Europe is not a real entity. You have success stories like Germany, then you got basket cases like Greece. No need to lump them together.

The funny thing is, the colonies he is so proud of are all descend from countries in the gutter these days (not so united kingdom, and losing Catalonia Spain).

Modern society's inventions are mostly american contributions, Europe after ww2 ate just riding on US coat tails and wants credit. US is not Europe!

China's economic success makes some people see red, just as her progress in aeronautical technology breeds the likes of B787. Until we see China becoming the basket cases of Europe, the detractors have to be contented with beating themselves up.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
I get a bit sick of the discussion about retail sales, household consumption and so on, so I went after the car sales/ productin data ( I have a quite good source of up to date detailed data on this field.)

So , it is quite interesting . let say.
Chinese cars sales, 2017 : 24.2million, production : 29.2 , so 5 million going to export ( or piling up at the back yard of manufacturers)
car production growth, 12 month , year over year :
15-16 : 14%
16-17:4.15%

Shocking is the 2017 data contain a bump of +30k truck/bus compared to 2016, means the corrected pasanger car production data is around 3%.

These numbers are poor compared to usa/japan/iran/russia .

And if the GDP growth is 6% then the 3% car sale growth ( if it is correlated with consumption) means that the consumption share from GDP DECREASING.


Other interesting data:

car average age in US is 14 years, if China wants to get the same age of vehicle fleet then it need rouhly 8-9 years to do that .

In that case the person / car will be 3.5 for China, versus 1.78 in the UK.

Means that at that point of time China should have 50% of the UK per person GDP, IF the consumption level grow to the same level like UK and IF the car manufacturing not growing and IF we expecting that the need of cars is on the same level in China like in the UK.

So, two way.

1. China car manufacturing change direction ,and start to grwo by 10 % ( consumption is 40% ,so it means that the GDP growth will have 4 percent boost from it) and in that case the growth can stop in seven years time, and the per capita GDP will be the same leve like UK due to same miracel, considering that the .
But it need 10 % growth in the GDP as well ( PPP chinese per capitagdp is 14000 vs 38000 UK) means the investment /export has to grow faster. It doesn't ad up actualy : D
2. Chinese consumption grwoth hit the brick wall in 2017, and now the decision makers opening up the loan gates to rop up the SOEs and the whole investment business.
Oh, we weren't talking about retail sales and consumption; we were talking about why people with declining geriatric economies who only look to the past for comfort try to lecture the country with the most robust growth in the world on "efficiency." Why do you rather run your mouth about shit you don't understand on here than go fix your own economy? Europe's economy is your business, not China's.

Who are you pretending to have this conversation on cars with? Are you babbling to yourself again like about free sex change? LOL Hey, forget about micro-data on cars. China's GDP grew 6.9% in 2017. UK's grew by 0.4% (
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). China doesn't need to do anything the British way; British need to learn the Chinese way (though I'd prefer they not).

Your mistake was letting people know you are from Europe. Before then, it was fun talking garbage about other people's country because no country is perfect. You threw stones at other people while hiding in the dark. But as soon as people found out the address of your glass house, we put you in pile of broken glass like you deserve to be in and I'll put you back again every time you post. ;)
 
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2handedswordsman

Junior Member
Registered Member
Just an interlude,

PRC also borrowed marxism from europe , and decided to imply it. Note that Das Kapital is the best analysis and also critique of the current economic and political system . (it's not a manifesto.for the naysayers,if you want manifesto, just read the Communist Manifesto, Das Kapital has other interesting subject, like Political Economy. Thats how "economics" called the time of Smith,Ricardo,Marx and maybe at Keynes time ) "XI, stressed more marxism, more marxism" . IF CPC remains faithful to the goal of economic and political equality of Chinese people , remains to be seen . The truth is that PRC seems to be learning from failures and faults of the past (USSR,US and other major economies) and heading forward . They'll be foolish if they adopt freely and without any restrictions to a system that reproduces inequality , debts and making circles between development and crises . You know , people are affected by crises and if such an industrial nation as China struck by crisis the results would be more than massive globally... maybe you can see it in the news . Sometimes wars starts because of crises. I am Greek you see...and wars are happening near ,crisis is in my face, we receive thousands war refugees this moment as we talk .
BUT, they have the right tool to avoid those crises, called marxism. As a conclusion ,stop accusing Chinese people for "stealing" western knowledge and wealth. Millions of people worked like slaves at the special economic zones for wages...at least attractive to big western sharks ;) and them sharks gained a looooooot ! (And this is a shame for a communist party in rule , but i thing they know how to fix it ) Chinese people worked and working for our wealth a lot , so we westeners have to say thanks to them, not the reverse

So dear Chinese fellas , keep working and doing it collective . An team is always more productive and more fun . We westeners have to deal with success stories of Germany of 0,5 % development while sucking the blood of its "partners" in EU, and the miracle of US of 2,5 % after years of struggling and also sucking the blood of the whole world -sorry they're "just bussinesses"-

have a good night everyone , lets hope and try to make our world a better place to be for everyone.
 
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