Chinese Economics Thread

[Equation]

I forgot to say, wind and solar also have their drawbacks. Wind kills thousands of birds and bats each year, more than the tailings pond we have here in Syncrude. And solar panels recycling will be a huge issue in 15-20 years when they need to be replaced.

Yes they do have draw backs, but it beats having to breath smog air on a bad day. Smog also have an effect on all air breathing creatures.

 

[PiSigma]

But you are still taking away carbon pollution from the atmosphere through fossil fuel burning cars. Coal will be there for another 20 years but it will eventually phased out. Why continue to use burning fossil fuel in cars while waiting for coals to phase out completely in decades? That's adding more pollution just by waiting alone till every energy is completely renewable.

What I'm saying is the extra electricity generation needed for EVs (at 50% coal) might still produce more pollutants than current gasoline tech. I didn't do the math, just wondering out loud. There are a lot of inefficiencies in power distribution, way more than for gasoline or diesel. Once you include all the inefficiencies and calculate extra pollution from coal, it may not be worth it. I'm sure there is a tipping point somewhere, like say 30% coal that makes EVs less polluting ( I don't know, just an example), but before we get there, it will only get worse.

 

[PiSigma]

Deleted. Repeated post

 

[SamuraiBlue]

You can take 100 percent of the figure and still end up with about slightly more than one third of the total power grid. So it's not an impossible thing to do to increase the power grid capacity in the planned period.

No, there will be no black out. The charging station itself will act as a regulator to electricity supply limiting itself to a max electricity input that it's allowed to use at any given time.

Yeah yeah, see you under the black skies of Beijing and Shanghai in the mid 2020's.

Back to serious discussion, the government will place a tax on all EVs once it becomes mainstream and blackouts starts happening stating it is to construct new power plants, probably nuclear fusion plants to recover R&D and other initial costs.

 

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What I'm saying is the extra electricity generation needed for EVs (at 50% coal) might still produce more pollutants than current gasoline tech. I didn't do the math, just wondering out loud. There are a lot of inefficiencies in power distribution, way more than for gasoline or diesel. Once you include all the inefficiencies and calculate extra pollution from coal, it may not be worth it. I'm sure there is a tipping point somewhere, like say 30% coal that makes EVs less polluting ( I don't know, just an example), but before we get there, it will only get worse.

Sorry I don't understand your POV. Why would you need "extra electricity generation needed for EV" when it came from the same electrical grid? Meaning it is the same amount of power produce either by renewable or nonrenewable energy. Adding recharging stations does NOT mean adding or the need to add more power onto the grid system itself. Electricity will be there 24/7 whether people will use it or not. As a matter fact a lot of electricity are not used during non peak hours which is a waste, so why not put in charging stations to power supply those EVs?

 

[Equation]

Yeah yeah, see you under the black skies of Beijing and Shanghai in the mid 2020's.

Back to serious discussion, the government will place a tax on all EVs once it becomes mainstream and blackouts starts happening stating it is to construct new power plants, probably nuclear fusion plants to recover R&D and other initial costs.

See you behind China in everything in 2020...oh wait that already happened!

 

[PiSigma]

Sorry I don't understand your POV. Why would you need "extra electricity generation needed for EV" when it came from the same electrical grid? Meaning it is the same amount of power produce either by renewable or nonrenewable energy. Adding recharging stations does NOT mean adding or the need to add more power onto the grid system itself. Electricity will be there 24/7 whether people will use it or not. As a matter fact a lot of electricity are not used during non peak hours which is a waste, so why not put in charging stations to power supply those EVs?

If all power generated during the peak hours are used for everything else, and then you add EV charging ( don't assume non peak charge) you will need more generation capacity and more distribution capacity.

 

[PiSigma]

You can take 100 percent of the figure and still end up with about slightly more than one third of the total power grid. So it's not an impossible thing to do to increase the power grid capacity in the planned period.

No, there will be no black out. The charging station itself will act as a regulator to electricity supply limiting itself to a max electricity input that it's allowed to use at any given time.

If the charging station acts as a regulator, then there won't be blackouts but it also means the more cars are plugged in, the slower the charge speed. What if I just want a quick charge before going out, and it only charged 5% because everyone had the same idea on a Friday or Saturday night?

 

[Quickie]

Yeah yeah, see you under the black skies of Beijing and Shanghai in the mid 2020's.

Back to serious discussion, the government will place a tax on all EVs once it becomes mainstream and blackouts starts happening stating it is to construct new power plants, probably nuclear fusion plants to recover R&D and other initial costs.

Your logic doesn't work.

If 7.2 KW (the figure given by you) of charging power can cause blackout, then there will be a lot of blackout already, caused by the average households using electric showers, which can range from 5 KW to 10 KW.

You also forget that charging station will have plenty of storage capacity to store cheaper electricity during off-peak hours.

 

[Quickie]

If the charging station acts as a regulator, then there won't be blackouts but it also means the more cars are plugged in, the slower the charge speed. What if I just want a quick charge before going out, and it only charged 5% because everyone had the same idea on a Friday or Saturday night?

Charging station will have plenty of electricity storage capacity, which should be able to handle the faster charging time required during the busier hours. The electricity deficit during the day time can easily be replenished during the off peak hours.