Chinese Economics Thread

Blackstone

Brigadier
China revealed a blueprint to eliminate abject poverty (in China) by 2020. Pulling about 700 million people out of poverty is one of the greatest feat of human rights achievement in the history of mankind. The rest of the developing world should study how China did it and take away those ideas and methods that may work for them.

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Franklin

Captain
I tell people how I read about Obama's plan to file a WTO trade complaint charging China "subsidizes" to kill China's domestic airline industry forcing Chinese to buy Boeing and Airbus instead and many think that's absurd. The fact is Chinese domestic airliners will not be competition to Boeing and Airbus in other markets based on prejudicial reputation alone so why would he need to file a complaint? It's all about preventing the largest market of new passenger airliners from buying their own plane.

Here's the spin to kill China's domestic airliner program.

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US trade officials challenging China over aircraft tax policy

By Vicki Needham - 12/08/15 09:50 AM EST


U.S. trade officials announced Tuesday they are challenging tax breaks that China is providing for domestically produced aircraft.

U.S. Trade Representative (USTR) Michael Froman said that the United States has started dispute settlement consultations at the World Trade Organization (WTO) with Beijing over its differing tax treatment of foreign-built commercial aircraft versus planes built in China.


“China’s discriminatory, unfair tax policy is harmful to American workers and American businesses of all sizes in the critical aviation industry, from parts suppliers to manufacturers of small and medium-sized aircraft,” Froman said.
"We’re also especially concerned that China attempted to hide this discriminatory tax policy,” he added.

“Transparency of laws and regulations impacting trade is a core WTO commitment that China must uphold, just as it expects other countries to do."

The United States is arguing that China is exempting its own aircraft from a value-added tax (VAT) while imposing those taxes on imported aircraft, which trade officials argue breaks WTO rules prohibiting discriminatory tax treatment based on where the product is made.

China imposes a 17 percent VAT on imported aircraft — generally those under 25 metric tons by weight — including general aviation and regional aircraft, while exempting planes made in China from the tax.

In addition, China has failed to publish its tax exemptions for domestically produced aircraft, USTR said.

“The Chinese government is undermining fair competition and playing by their own set of rules,” said Rep. Pat Tiberi (R-Ohio), former chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee Trade Subcommittee.

The International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM) said there has been deep concern in recent years about growth of China’s aerospace industry.

“China utilizes every tool available to establish a strong aerospace industry, including other market distorting mechanisms like demanding that U.S. companies transfer production and technology in return for sales,” said Tom Buffenbarger, IAM's international president.

“The action today is a step in the right direction to leveling the playing field among the world’s aerospace companies and their workers. We hope this paves the way for more aerospace exports produced by U.S. workers," Buffenbarger said.

The case is the first against China's aircraft sector, which is one of the fastest growing in the world, USTR said.

United Steelworkers International President Leo Gerard said that “tens of thousands of USW members working in the aluminum, steel, glass and tire sectors produce and supply materials and parts used in the domestic aerospace industry."

"The USTR's actions are a critical part of a strategy to maintain U.S. leadership in this vital sector," Gerard said.

The Obama administration has ramped up its trade enforcement cases — this is the 20th action brought since 2009 — as part of its pivot to the Asia-Pacific.

The White House has argued that trade agreements like the 12-nation Trans-Pacific Partnership puts the United States in the driver's seat for writing global trade rules, not China.

Consultations are the first step in the dispute process. If the United States and China are not able to reach a solution, the United States may ask the WTO to establish a dispute settlement panel to look into the challenge.
What the Americans and Europeans should be worried about is less that COMAC is going to take market share away from them but rather that as China's aerospace industry matures that more work will be outsourced to China costing them many well paying jobs in the short run and perhabs even loss of skills in the long run.

Companies like Boeing and Airbus would have no qualms outsourcing work abroad for two reasons.

1. Their home markets of the US and Europe is becoming less and less important for their sales. As more and more planes are being sold outside of their home markets. It just makes business sense for them to invest and build where you sell (ie outside of their home market). Especially if you can do it cheaper there than back home.

2. They have to squeeze every dollar of profit that they can to justify their stock valuations as that is linked to pensions and varius other liabilities that they have.

Both Airbus and Boeing are already setting up shop for production in China now and as China's aerospace capabilities grows we can see more of that to come.
 
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Confucian ethics, education primacy, and overseas entrepreneurship greatly contributed to the rebuilding of Japan and rise of Asian Tigers, but they were not the primary reasons, because those qualities were around for centuries before Japan and the Asian Tigers out-competed Western countries and gained first-world economic status. There must be other, more deterministic reason for their success.

A review of the world's developed nations show two common denominators across wide range of social, political, and cultural norms. The common items are creation and instilation of strong institutions that favor comprehensive national development, and authoriterian or not fully democratic governance systems. In other words, social and democratic reforms were put on the back burner until after the nations fully developed.

In summary, the nations of the Sinic world greatly benefited from Confucian ethics, entrepreneurship, and believe in education, but they weren't enough without strong institutions under undemocratic or not fully democratic governance to support comprehensive national development. The flip side of that coin is nations that democratized before completing national development became basket cases.

And to be fully objective let's also look at a key factor which contributed greatly to the "developed" countries being "developed" at their high levels of wealth and standards of living. That is they directly and/or slightly indirectly used force of arms the world over for multiple centuries to obtain wealth, set up lopsided trade to their advantage, and actively prevent others from developing.
 
I trust that you never live in Asia outside China . Look most of the country that escape the mid income trap are in East Asia . Why is that ? There are 3 main strain that distinguish East Asia from the rest of the world...

Nope a lot of grants (read not required to be paid back) were provided as well...

Same sort of attitude the US gives to France regarding the Marshal plan, just as the Marshal plan wasn't a favor but a concerted action by the US to forestall communist expansion in Western Europe the French were well within their recognizance to act on their own interests, no different than China would do, especially given the intentions of the Japanese right-wing to pretend that negative things never happened.

For all the back and forth going on the real problem is that every side is not giving all sides balanced credit. For those who worked their way up, there are always lucky breaks and treatment by others which while not altruism could have been a lot worse. For those who offered others a chance at co-operation or gave others a break let's not pretend it was just for others' benefit but actually something more important - whoever is more or in the most powerful position in a given situation can make a conscientious effort to create an opportunity to work with others for mutual benefit which amounts to elevating and growing the greater good. Hey, my user name is Panasian which is a historical case study of both utopian and dystopian potential of conscientious give and take, independence and co-operation. In other words, it takes work to realize the Vulcan salute for everyone: may you live long and prosper.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member

This thread is about Chinese Economics.

Stick to economics.

What's going on with the currency. What's going on with the major economic sectors? What's happening with trade issues? etc.

STOP THE POLITICAL - IDEOLOIGICAL - RELIGIOUS - ETHICAL ARGUEMENTS TRYING TO CONVOINCE OTHERS WHY YOU THINK THINGS ARE HAPPEING.

SD is not about all of that. Take that to other forums.

Thread temporarily closed to cool of and to weed out ALL of said posts. We will do the same to other threads if necessary.

DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MODERATION.


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siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Reopening thread in light of recent stock market plunge.

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NEW YORK (AP) -- U.S. stocks are opening 2016 on a grim note, dropping sharply after a plunge in China and declines in Europe.

The Dow Jones industrial average sank 347 points, or 2 percent, to 17,078 as of 9:35 a.m. Eastern time Monday.

The Standard & Poor's 500 index lost 37 points, or 1.8 percent, to 2,006. The Nasdaq composite gave up 112 points, or 2.2 percent, to 4,895.

Overseas markets fell even more. China's main index plunged nearly 7 percent, triggering an emergency trading suspension. The drop was caused by weak Chinese manufacturing data and escalating tensions in the Middle East.

European indexes fell between 2 and 3 percent.

Bond prices rose. The yield on the 10-year Treasury note fell to 2.23 percent.
 
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