Chinese Economics Thread

[fatzergling]

At this point it is almost impossible to greatly boost consumption anymore. Rather than being overcapacity, China's superior productivity is actually driving western countries especially Europe off the cliff. Production growth is huge in China simply because production elsewhere is dwindling. China is already the largest consuming nation even without considering the large price discrepancies and its impossible to consume what is made for the entire world.

Why not increase worker wages, provide benefits, enforce working hours for workers, make law for overtime.

Wouldn't that also be able to increase code for thees companies who are racing to the bottom in price by making it more expensive, and promote some inflation, better work life balance and maybe even increase births ?

I wonder why the govt hasn't done that yet?

Why not go further and reintroduce works councils to gradually transfer control of wages/benefits/hours to the workers themselves, by first giving them an enforceable voice? China had to suspend these measures while it was catching up, but it can do all sorts of things to assuage the common worker now that it’s more secure.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Professor Sun Zhongwei from South China Normal University has remarked:
"At its peak, around 2008–2009 (just before and after the global financial crisis), China’s manufacturing sector employed about 200 million people. By 2015–2016, that number had dropped to around 150 million. Now, we’re down to about 120 or even 100 million. So, over the past decade, about 70 to 80 million people have left manufacturing. Where did they go? Mainly into the service sector."

Presently there is quite a lot of unemployment, especially among the young people. For the services to expand further on the people need more money. Likely the industrial sector is strong enough to sustain further increases in wages.

Thats a huge decline in industrial workforce. In 1 aspect it shows that assembly is being automated, which is good. However it also shows that large capital goods, which are usually hand assembled due to low volume and high customization, still has room to increase in volume.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Why not go further and reintroduce works councils to gradually transfer control of wages/benefits/hours to the workers themselves, by first giving them an enforceable voice? China had to suspend these measures while it was catching up, but it can do all sorts of things to assuage the common worker now that it’s more secure.

Huawei has that and is a strong innovator, far from what is imagined to be a worker's cooperative. That is why it is ideologically dangerous to them.

 

[FriedRiceNSpice]

The thing with benefits is that you can never find a balance with them, better build up productive capacity and delay it for later rather than the opposite. Actions are being taken to improve social benefits for the seniors and for children, that for now is more than enough, they are the most vulnerable.

CCP does not have unlimited control and restraint, once the floodgates of benefits open it would be really hard to close them. This shouldn't even be up for debate, how many developing and developed countries have we seen post 91' fall for this and ruin themselves.

The reality is with continued advances in automation, robotics, and AI, we may eventually arrive at a point in the future where full labor participation is no longer necessary nor desirable. It is the responsibility of policymakers to anticipate this eventuality and gradually roll out changes in socio-economic policy to ensure society and the economy continue to function harmoniously when this point is reached.

 

[sanctionsevader]

The reality is with continued advances in automation, robotics, and AI, we may eventually arrive at a point in the future where full labor participation is no longer necessary nor desirable. It is the responsibility of policymakers to anticipate this eventuality and gradually roll out changes in socio-economic policy to ensure society and the economy continue to function harmoniously when this point is reached.

Pursue:
(A) reduce socially necessary labour hours (aka wage labour)

And:
(B) grow/maintain real income levels and affordability

Eventually you get:
(C) class society ceases to exist, utopia.

If things get in the way of doing A while also doing B then you solve those things and then continue with A and B until C.

that's the communist manifesto basically.

 

[FriedRiceNSpice]

Pursue:
(A) reduce socially necessary labour hours (aka wage labour)

And:
(B) grow/maintain real income levels and affordability

Eventually you get:
(C) class society ceases to exist, utopia.

If things get in the way of doing A while also doing B then you solve those things and then continue with A and B until C.

that's the communist manifesto basically.

Yes, very similar to true communism. The principal distinction would be that in communism, everyone is a worker, whereas in a future highly automated economy, most people would no longer need to work.