Chinese Economics Thread

antimatter

Banned Idiot
So many countries have devalued their currencies recently..

yet it's the Yuan that has been keep stable during this time. Take a look around, the Euro has devalued, the Korean Won dropped 30%, and you have a whole bunch of ASEAN countries actively devaluing their currencies like Phiippines, Malaysia, thailand, vietnam to promote their export. I have read some of their newspaper, they actually had it across the headline to devalue in order to promote export.

I am sure alot of countries around the world are doing that especially around this time.

This accusation by Obama admininstration is clearly politically motivated to single out CHina.

If I were CHina and has the chance to talk with Obama, I would tell him straight to his face, Yuan has been keep stable all those times, in fact has risen 20% ... yet take a good look around he world.

How's he's going to account for other countries around world actually devaluing their currencies to promte trade at this very moment??? He better give me a good and fair answer. If he can't then I'll tell him stop playing this type of politically motivated game.
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
So many countries have devalued their currencies recently..

yet it's the Yuan that has been keep stable during this time. Take a look around, the Euro has devalued, the Korean Won dropped 30%, and you have a whole bunch of ASEAN countries actively devaluing their currencies like Phiippines, Malaysia, thailand, vietnam to promote their export. I have read some of their newspaper, they actually had it across the headline to devalue in order to promote export.

I am sure alot of countries around the world are doing that especially around this time.

This accusation by Obama admininstration is clearly politically motivated to single out CHina.

If I were CHina and has the chance to talk with Obama, I would tell him straight to his face, Yuan has been keep stable all those times, in fact has risen 20% ... yet take a good look around he world.

How's he's going to account for other countries around world actually devaluing their currencies to promte trade at this very moment??? He better give me a good and fair answer. If he can't then I'll tell him stop playing this type of politically motivated game.

THe Euro British pound is a freely floating currency /open to market forces so is the Korean Won I think?. All the other countries you mentioned, their economies are rather small in comparison and without offending anyone, insignificant when compared with China's Japans etc so I guess they get overlooked.
But the question if asked, given the growth of china and the excellent state of Chinas finances would'nt the market value for the Yuan be at a higher rate than it currently has been. The answer would definitely been yes but by how much is anyones guess.
But having said that it is understandable that China as a developing country which much still to do, probably does not want to see its currency at the mercy of market forces/speculators of the Soros type and what happend with the British Pound. CHinas critics should also acknowledge the Yuan has appreciated over time and possibly more so, but at a slower pace.
Therefore there has to be some give and take on both sides.
 

pla101prc

Senior Member
right or wrong, obama is making this allegation for the good of his own country or himself...which is understandable. however what most economists are saying with great validity is that this is not a good time to start a quarrel with China. Yuan is not gonna remain undervalued forever, but now is not the time. even if obama brought this up for vicarious reasons it would still have a negative economic implication.
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
right or wrong, obama is making this allegation for the good of his own country or himself...which is understandable. however what most economists are saying with great validity is that this is not a good time to start a quarrel with China. Yuan is not gonna remain undervalued forever, but now is not the time. even if obama brought this up for vicarious reasons it would still have a negative economic implication.

Tell that to Peter Morici, he has a be in the bonnet about Chinas Trade practices, and he seems to be gaining traction with his views, he often posts his views with 'atimes'
 

antimatter

Banned Idiot
THe Euro British pound is a freely floating currency /open to market forces so is the Korean Won I think?. .

come on, if countries want their currencies devalued they can influence indirectly. There are mnay ways governments can implement that.

actually's currency issue is a sovereign matter belong to individual country.

CHina didn't point a gun to force US companies to set up business in CHina. You have tons of low cost, devalued countries that your companies can go to. You don't have to come to CHina. Nobody force you!

Now, it's all busted, and Obama admin is starting to point fingers. Hey, he can't punish those US firms doing business in China, instead have to resort to scapegoating other country for currency manipulation. Pathetic.
 

flyzies

Junior Member
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Forget the G-7, it's only China and the US that count
William Pesek
January 24, 2009

China's economy overtook Germany's to become the third-largest in 2007. Japan may be next to be leapfrogged, if China can sort out its relationship with the US.

The Chinese economy is now 70 times bigger than when its leader Deng Xiaoping traded hard-line communist policies for free-market ideas in 1978. No nation in history has raised more out of poverty in so short a time.

That leaves the Group of Seven nations with quite a dilemma: who draws the short straw and informs Canada that it's out of the club?

Yet the real issue is one of relevance in a world now dominated by the Group of Two: the US and China. It is a crucial point as 2009 unfolds and the old leadership framework loses more teeth, if that is even possible. The G-7 - Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Britain and the US - has been completely useless over the past two years as markets crashed and economies plunged.

The Group of Eight - the G-7 plus Russia - is an even bigger waste of energy and travel budgets. It was not created because of Russia's commercial might, but fears that the 11th-biggest economy was too nuclear to fail. G-8 summits are only memorable for photos of world leaders awkwardly donning local costumes. Conference call, anyone?

The US and China should do the global economy a favour and formalise the G-2 process. Summit meetings, communiques, press conferences, the works. Only this framework must be about more than photo opportunities, vague language and polite discussion. It must be about the world's two most important economies working together to avoid disaster.

"There's no more important economic relationship, and 2009 will prove it," said John Calverley, Toronto-based head of North American research at Standard Chartered. "The world will be watching as never before."

The former US president George Bush should have done it. Some argue that the "strategic economic dialogue" initiated by the former Treasury secretary Henry Paulson amounted to a G-2. Not so.

It was not a meeting of equals, but a way to cow China into boosting its currency. US officials seemed aghast that China came to the table with demands of its own.

When it comes to global stability, few things matter more than China's massive holdings of US treasuries. That may be seen in Paulson's need to liaise with Chinese officials before the US's stimulus plans were announced. If China does not buy much of the debt the US issues, who will? And if China baulks, the rest of Asia may, too.

That is why the G-2 needs to be a genuinely equal partnership.

It cannot be a developed nation holding more chips than a poorer one. That was fine two years ago, before a meltdown in the US imperilled global growth. Now that the US is arguably looking a bit like a developing economy itself, the high horse has to go.

At least $US650 billion of China's $US1.9 trillion of reserves are in US treasuries. A move to sell those assets would boost interest rates and further damage China's export industries.

Mutually assured economic destruction limits options and leverage in Washington and Beijing. The US President, Barack Obama, should act fast to hold this arrangement together.

Japan has problems of its own. It is back in recession, and deflation is sure to follow. Even though it steered clear of the toxic debt killing the US, the stocks that banks hold in friendly institutions - so-called cross-shareholding - are plunging in value and weighing on profits.

Now Japan is about to churn out loads of bonds to pay for stimulus plans. China also will be issuing ever-growing amounts of debt to boost domestic growth as its export industries collapse.

The 4 trillion-yuan ($US586 billion) stimulus plan announced in November is just the beginning. The Premier, Wen Jiabao, said as much on Monday when he warned that China faces a "very grim" job market this year. Wen added that the Government must pay more attention to public welfare and social stability. That is a vital, yet pricey, proposition for the nation of 1.3 billion people.

Add in Europe's stimulus needs, and the world is about to see a crowding out phenomenon unlike any other in history. Governments will leave little room for private debt issuers.

While no big economy is blameless, the US caused this crisis with an all-regulations-are-bad fanaticism, irresponsible central banking and basic greed. It is now the world's problem and it will take global efforts to restore calm, particularly from the US and China.

Europe is an important economic region, and one grappling to co-operate for the sake of prosperity. Its fortunes rely on how well the US and China can catch their collective breaths and start growing again.
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
CHina didn't point a gun to force US companies to set up business in CHina. You have tons of low cost, devalued countries that your companies can go to. You don't have to come to CHina. Nobody force you!

No they didnt force, but they certainly created conditions to entice
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
DAm I cant remeber where i found this Article written by David Goldman

but here are some excerpts

Lie about the true state of banks
Fixing the bank crisis is the easy part
By David P Goldman

For the third time in the post-war period, the United States banking system is insolvent. When President Barack Obama's economic advisor Paul Volcker chaired the Federal Reserve's Board of Governors in 1981, the collapse of emerging-market borrowers left the big American banks on the verge of bankruptcy. The collapse of the junk-bond market in 1990 followed by the real estate market in 1991 left the system insolvent once again.

Both times, the right medicine was to ignore the disease. Rather than mark banks' asset books to market, the Federal Reserve let them carry bad loans
at face value. By dropping interest rates, the Fed provided cheap funding for the banks to earn a higher margin on their assets. As long as cash-on-cash returns were positive, the regulators could ignore the insolvency.

ALso in the same article (Oh and by the way can anybody loan me Bladerunner a couple of million even more perhaps) for investements as per below)
......................In fact, the collapse of these markets provides the solution to the American banking crisis. Forced selling by hedge funds has cheapened the price of subprime mortgage bonds, for example, to the point that they are highly attractive. AAA-rated bonds backed by subprime mortgages issued in 2007, for example, start to lose principal only after losses reach 35%. Losses almost certainly will exceed that number - but will they exceed 50%, or 60%? That is extremely unlikely.

Yet bonds with a 5% coupon are selling at a dollar price of 35 cents, for a yield of well over 14%. Even with an extremely high loss rate, the yield should be in excess of 10%. Financed at zero percent, with an 8% capital coverage ratio, the rate of return on holding such instruments is enormous.
 
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