Chinese Economics Thread

flyzies

Junior Member
Well it looks like the first shots of the Obama administration has been fired when Geithner has made it quite plain about dealing with issues on Chinas currency.
The Democrats with supporting economists and business studies experts such as Peter Morici have been gunning for China a long time. With no lack of support in Congress and the Senate, things could get very tricky for the Chinese, as I think it would be more than just mild cajoling as practised by the Bush administration.
Any view on a likely scenario?

He, and his administration, will wake up and see the light soon enough. US economic recovery is impossible without the cooperation of China...that's a fact he will not be able to get around.
Getting Congress and the Senate to pass legislation approving tariffs on Chinese products whenever they feel like it will probably not be taken lightly in Beijing.
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
Re: Get ready for economic battle with Obama's administration!

Well with Paulson out, the new treasury secretary fires the first shot!

By Lori Montgomery and Anthony Faiola
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, January 23, 2009; Page A08

As Timothy F. Geithner moved closer yesterday to confirmation as the next Treasury secretary, he signaled a confrontational shift in the U.S. economic relationship with China, bluntly stating that the new administration thinks Beijing is "manipulating" its currency and will act "aggressively" using "all the diplomatic avenues" to change China's currency practices.

Get ready to rumble.

Here's few pointers
*) Acquire more oversea firms and produce products oversea
*) Time to sell US treasuries
*)If US begin to levy heavy tax, then lower the Yuan. No need to raise the Yuan further.
*)Time to restrict US products into China


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Trade wars do not do either party any good.Chinas yuan has stabilised, but that belies the fact that MANY countries feel that the YUAN is undervalued and is looking to the USA to try to remedy the situation.Diplomatic means do not seem to have worked, and there is an increasing demand in some quarters for the USA to be more aggressive in handling this matter, .... getting a ruling on the matter for starters
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
He, and his administration, will wake up and see the light soon enough. US economic recovery is impossible without the cooperation of China...that's a fact he will not be able to get around.
Getting Congress and the Senate to pass legislation approving tariffs on Chinese products whenever they feel like it will probably not be taken lightly in Beijing.

Im not looking at that situation at the moment, but the undervalued Yuan believers will certainly push Obama to take firmer steps,but lets not jump the gun, perhaps by getting a international ruling in their favour first would be like a "shot across the bow" firmly placing the ball in China's court.
Such and outcome could place China in a difficult position and no amount of belligerency/ protestations on Chinas' part would disguise the fact that they are in the wrong.
 
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antimatter

Banned Idiot
Re: Get ready for economic battle with Obama's administration!

If yuan goes up significantly, it will lose US export anyway. Why bother to raise the yuan, just to appease US? obviously obama admin is looking for scapegoat.


Heck, everybody in Asia is controlling its currency, from South Korea , devaluing 30% of its values, Vietnam, Philippines, malaysia, Indonesia...heck everybody is doing that.
 

pla101prc

Senior Member
Re: Get ready for economic battle with Obama's administration!

obama is lookin tough now, sooner or later he is gonna realize that's not gonna work like his predecessors did. give it sometime, the new president wants to build some "prestige". if paulson cant force the Yuan up by the degree bush wanted it when the US economy was good, then there is nothing obama can do. remember paulson's Chinese counterpart is his friend Wang Qishan.
 

antimatter

Banned Idiot
Re: Get ready for economic battle with Obama's administration!

You tell me whether this guy looks like qualified treasurey secretary.
No way. He's looks way too inexperienced, yet cocky yuppie. He's nothing but a barking attack dog of Obama.

Man, he looks nothing but trouble.
 

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Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Im not looking at that situation at the moment, but the undervalued Yuan believers will certainly push Obama to take firmer steps,but lets not jump the gun, perhaps by getting a international ruling in their favour first would be like a "shot across the bow" firmly placing the ball in China's court.
Such and outcome could place China in a difficult position and no amount of belligerency/ protestations on Chinas' part would disguise the fact that they are in the wrong.

I believe it nothing but posturing but if he serious he is risking 1930 STYLE DEPRESSION Guess this guy Obama doesn't know what is he doing Here is the thought of Francesco Sisci and David Goldman

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Geithner blows up the world
January 22nd, 2009
By David Goldman
Geithner’s comment today that President Obama believes that China is “manipulating the yuan” takes us straight into Great Depression territory. With Paul Volcker at his side, I had hoped that Obama would be perspicacious enough not to touch the third rail of global economics, namely protectionism. Nothing, absolutely nothing that Obama might have done could be worse than this. If the US looks at the global jobs market as a zero-sum game in which the US has to claw back manufacturing jobs which China has taken away, we are back to beggar-thy-neighbor and the 1930s.

Notice that the 10-year Treasury has backed up from a low of 2.05% to 2.65% today, even while the stock market and the economic outlook have cratered. During the past several days, the market has sold off essentially everything: stocks, credit, and Treasuries. Only oil and gold are up. The cost of credit protection on the leading sovereigns, including the US, has jumped. What is happening?

As I observed yesterday, the immediate risk to sovereign credit, the risk of Icelandization of Ireland and perhaps even the UK, lies in the banking crisis. If governments take over banks on the premise that their asset books are worthless but their liabilities must be met, the weight of bank liabilities is sufficient to sink government finances. It is the threat of bank nationalization and the likelihood that the US government will have to assume massive amounts of additional debt that is crushing the long end of the Treasury curve and forcing up the price of credit protection on the US sovereign.

The alternative, hinted at by Paul Volcker after the presentation of the Group of 30 recommendations on the banking system, would eliminate mark to market accounting, stop the writedowns at banks, and run banks on a cash-flow plus recovery basis. There is a sufficient base of viable assets to keep the banks in positive cash flow if financed at zero interest by the Fed, and effectively zero capital cover (since the banks really don’t have any capital).

All this presumes that the major creditors of the US, notably China, will continue to support the Treasury market in a huge way. A cynic might think that Geithner’s statement is designed to unleash a wave of speculation that China will revalue, leading to enormous capital inflows into yuan and Chinese government intervention, which would balloon Chinese reserves, and increase Chinese purchases of Treasuries. No-one in this business, though, is that subtle or that smart.

It appears simply that Obama is playing to his labor constituency. Resorting to protectionism could have cataclysmic consequences in the midst of a 1930s-style contraction of world trade. If China were to shift even a fraction of its reserves into gold, the consequences for the dollar would be frightening. We already are seeing hairline fractures in the street cred of the US Treasury, in the form of a LIBOR+75 cost of default protection as well as the violent backup in the long end of the Treasury curve. That should flash a red danger signal at the Administration.

The way out of the recession (might as well say depression) lies through Beijing, Francesco Sisci and I wrote in November. This is the worst economic news I’ve heard all year.

This entry was posted on Thursday, January 22nd, 2009 at 11:40 am and is filed under General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

10 Responses to “Geithner blows up the world”
Francesco Sisci Says:

January 22nd, 2009 at 11:57 am
There are a loto of sounds of protectionism world-wide, and thus it seems very important to me that the new administration keep a distance from those sounds. Otherwise these could objectively feed all kinds of speculations in a already very volatile market. To me these statements seem to show that the new administration has not yet a clear idea on how it should face the crisis. David Goldman says, correctly I think, that Obama is playing to his labor constituency. If it is just a tactical, short term move then there is no real harm in it. It could be a problem if this rhetoric is picked up by other countries later on.
 
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Autumn Child

Junior Member
With the Banks paying very little in interest they could sell treasury bonds to the general public, to take up the slack made by China's absence in the market.I would be willing to buy a couple of ks worth if I could as Ive got a modest amount of US dollars not doing anything in particular. I hold them in a foreign currency account and I bought them when the Nz dollar was worth 73cents and some hedgeing/ forward at 62cents. sometime ago. Some of it was to cover a family member studying over there.. Our currencys tracking south and expected to get worse, its currently about 52c and there would be tens of millions of Americans and others also willing, if Obama with his oratory skills can persuede the people to go along with it.

I also think this time around we have a President that genuinely believes China is manipulating its currency, rather than just giving lip service to the subject to placate congress so I reckon he will be prepared to go for a ruling on it by the international body that decides these things and then leave the ball in China's court, with some expectations

I don't think China will get any support from the other major trading nations as they are also of the same opinion.

And amid the financial crisis, layoffs, and the fact americans spend more than they can earn, how much money do you think the american people lend to their government? 600 billion USD? Did you even check how much the total saving of the american people? What if china shift their forex reserve to gold? How many countries will panic sell US treasury and switch to gold too? How about inflation? you did not say anything about the inflation that might be caused by not importing chinese goods? like the idea of wall mart going bankrupt at this moment? Be realistic.
 

flyzies

Junior Member
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Under Obama, US-China ties may face shaky start

WASHINGTON: Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton has said no nation is more important to the United States than China. But ties between the two powers may be off to a rocky start just days into the Obama administration.

During his first presidential speech Tuesday, President Barack Obama spoke of how earlier generations of Americans had "faced down fascism and communism." China's state broadcaster quickly faded out the audio of its live broadcast, the camera cutting back to a flustered studio anchor.

Then, on Thursday, Obama's choice to lead the Treasury Department, Timothy Geithner, wrote that Obama believes China is "manipulating" its currency, which American manufacturers say Beijing does to make its goods cheaper for U.S. consumers and American products more expensive in China.

Geithner's comments could anger Chinese officials, who closely follow U.S. political rhetoric and frequently decry what they consider foreign interference in China's internal affairs. The United States often criticizes China about human rights and trade abuses, but Washington and Beijing find themselves increasingly intertwined in a host of crucial economic, military and diplomatic efforts.

A spokesman at the Chinese Embassy in Washington did not return messages seeking comment Friday.

Selig Harrison, director of the Asia program at the U.S.-based Center for International Policy, said it was "very ill-advised for the new administration to confront China as if this were 10 years ago and we were in a strong financial position internationally."

"We are dependent on Chinese good will for our economic survival and viability, and, therefore, it seems to me that this type of posture is very risky," Harrison said.

Despite an early face-off with China over an intercepted U.S. spy plane, former President George W. Bush made it a priority to strengthen relations with China while also pushing the country to live up to what he saw as its duties as an emerging global superpower and a veto-holding member of the U.N. Security Council.

Trade ties between the United States and China often are tense. China says it has made progress on currency changes and worries about bills introduced in Congress that would impose economic sanctions on China unless it moves more quickly to let its currency rise in value against the dollar.

Although Geithner said China is "manipulating its currency," he suggested Thursday that now might not be the right time to brand Beijing as a currency manipulator under U.S. trade law, which could lead to U.S. trade sanctions against imports from China.

His testimony may not have been a complete shock to China. Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi has said he studies American television and newspapers. Obama and Clinton, during their long campaigns to secure the Democratic nomination for president, made no secret of their desires for a tougher position with China about its human rights record and its trade practices.

Still, Obama's young administration is not complete: he has yet to put in place many of the officials who will be dealing with China issues; he also has yet to decide whether to continue the high-level economic discussions the Bush administration has held twice a year with China since late 2006.

Bonnie Glaser, an analyst with the Center for Strategic and International Studies think tank, said the Chinese have said during the past several months that they want a good start to their relationship with the new U.S. administration.

"Everybody just needs to be a little patient on this," Glaser said. "I would not draw any premature conclusions that the administration has decided to take a tougher stance, and hopefully the Chinese will be patient while the administration works this out."
 
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