Chinese Economics Thread

Doombreed

Junior Member
The U.S. military industrial complex gets paid big bucks, TPP or no TPP.

And it's not just the dairy industry, it's also airliners (Boeing makes more money off its airliners than its defense business), GE and other heavy industry machinery/power generators/nuclear reactor makers, the agricultural lobby as a whole, auto, Apple, etc.

That was a half joking answer. China will never be in the TPPA because the TPPA is aimed at China. If you actually read the thing, it's pretty obvious. The bit about state owned enterprises and currency manipulation is the most obvious clue. This is the second part of the Pacific Pivot, the first being military.

China is floating an alternative free trade region potentially involving India and Russia.
 

Skywatcher

Captain
That was a half joking answer. China will never be in the TPPA because the TPPA is aimed at China. If you actually read the thing, it's pretty obvious. The bit about state owned enterprises and currency manipulation is the most obvious clue. This is the second part of the Pacific Pivot, the first being military.

China is floating an alternative free trade region potentially involving India and Russia.

So? Vietnam is even more reliant on SOEs, and Japan manipulates its currency.
 

Skywatcher

Captain
Maybe China is a part of the Pacific Pivot too. China was even in RimPac! Maybe you're on to something here...:rolleyes:

The U.S. government has gone on record stating that China is welcome to join the TPP if it wants, and as noted, there are no insurmountable structural barriers to it doing so.
 

Doombreed

Junior Member
The U.S. government has gone on record stating that China is welcome to join the TPP if it wants, and as noted, there are no insurmountable structural barriers to it doing so.

Refer to my comment about China in RimPac. Diplomatic speak is different to reality. Besides, it's this hard to negotiate the TPP as it is. Imagine trying to accomidate China. The negotiation will never end......
 

Skywatcher

Captain
Refer to my comment about China in RimPac. Diplomatic speak is different to reality. Besides, it's this hard to negotiate the TPP as it is. Imagine trying to accomidate China. The negotiation will never end......

That's like arguing that since the WTO was created by capitalist liberal democracies, that China wouldn't join because of 'reality'.

China isn't going to overturn the negotiations, not anymore than Japan/Singapore/Vietnam.
 

Doombreed

Junior Member
That's like arguing that since the WTO was created by capitalist liberal democracies, that China wouldn't join because of 'reality'.

China isn't going to overturn the negotiations, not anymore than Japan/Singapore/Vietnam.

Alright, alright. I'm just gonna hold my breath till China joins the TPPA. Stand by, Team. o_O...o_o...*_*...X_X...

Why do you want China to join the TPPA so much? Do you like American corporations influencing China's policies? Or is it a case of "Don't tell me they won't play with me. They so would. People like me. I have friends!" ;)
 

shen

Senior Member
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An historic free trade agreement between Australia and China looks set to be signed within days with Foreign Affairs Minister Julie Bishop more "optimistic" than ever that the long sought deal will materialise.

It comes as security relations in the world's most dynamic and populous region appeared to warm as the two great north Asian rivals, China and Japan, took the first tentative steps towards lowering tensions over disputed islands in the East China Sea.
"It's looking very positive": Foreign Affairs Minister Julie Bishop said negotiations were continuing but she was confident sticking points could be ironed out.

"It's looking very positive": Foreign Affairs Minister Julie Bishop said negotiations were continuing but she was confident sticking points could be ironed out. Photo: Andrew Meares

The proposed trade agreement would unlock lucrative markets for Australia, especially in professional services across education, information technology, health, urban planning, engineering, and architecture, as well as management expertise and improved governance.

Speaking in Beijing ahead of the arrival of Prime Minister Tony Abbott and more than 20 other Asia Pacific world leaders, Ms Bishop welcomed the staging of the first talks between Chinese and Japanese foreign ministers in years.

"This is the first formal bilateral meeting they had in over two and half years, so, we are hopeful that this is the beginning of a new relationship between China and Japan," she said.

"This is what Australia has been urging both China and Japan to achieve over some time; in my meetings with China and my meetings with Japan, I urged both to resolve their differences."

But she said it was too early to say whether it would result in a durable dispute resolution mechanism to prevent overreaction, even though that was in the best interests of the two nations and the region more broadly.

"It's not just about the relationship between China and Japan, for their relationship affects the region, it has an impact globally, so we are hopeful and optimistic that this is the start of a new era in Japan/China relations."

Ms Bishop also flagged that a new trade agreement with Beijing removing or substantially lowering import tariffs on Australian goods and services, and potentially worth billions of dollars in new exports, was within reach.

"It's looking very positive, and [Trade Minister] Andrew Robb assures me that the areas of negotiation have narrowed significantly, so we are quite optimistic, but there's not an agreement until everything's agreed," she told Fairfax Media exclusively.

"They're continuing to negotiate and I believe that some considerable progress has been made of recent days so we will obviously push for as early an agreement as we're able to get."

Sources close to the line-by-line negotiating process were confident that the remaining sticking points could be ironed out to facilitate a signing during the forthcoming visit of President Xi Jinping for the G20 and subsequent bilateral talks.

But they warned also that the hardest things to agree on were often left to last, raising the risk of a collapse.

Two-way trade between Australia and China topped $150 billion last year and continues to grow, making it Australia's most important economic relationship; worth 10 times that of trade with the second most populous country in the world, India, at about $15 billion.

While lifting productivity growth is a major theme at next week's G20 summit, including a focus on taxation reform, deregulation, and infrastructure construction to defibrillate stalled domestic economies, trade is the big agenda item at the APEC meeting with no less than three multilateral trade agreements also being pushed from various quarters including China's preferred FTAAP or free trade agreement for Asia and the Pacific, and the United States' TPP or Trans-Pacific Partnership.

APEC represents some 57 per cent of the global economy and includes giants such as the US, China, Japan, South Korea, and Russia.

Mr Abbott will meet Russian President Vladimir Putin in Beijing just weeks after the Australian leader promised to "shirtfront" him over the MH17 atrocity.

President Xi will address the Australian Parliament on the Monday after the G20 summit in Brisbane.

Mr Robb, who has been at the forefront of the Australia-China FTA talks, said the challenge for Australian business was to lift its sights to the full potential of a massive Chinese economy transitioning from manufacturing to services.

"We're at the very sharp end of our negotiations with the Chinese," he told reporters in the Chinese capital.

He said there were "tens of thousands of opportunities".

"It's a sweet spot for us . . . any service to do with aged care or health or education or architecture . . . all of these things, there's a really keen focus because that's where the jobs are.

"Australia is so well-placed to help China develop so many of these service capabilities. It's quite an exciting time to be negotiating this deal because of the significance and the complementarity of what's happening here in China with what we're good at."

True to its emerging role as a common friend to Washington and Beijing, Canberra officially supports both the American and Chinese pushes to liberalise trade in the region.

"The TPP could fold into a region-wide FTA and I strongly support . . . the ultimate objective of getting a FTA for the Asia-Pacific [region]," Mr Robb said.

He said Australians should not fear increased movement of Chinese labour in Australia.

"There should be no concerns on this front. Like all of the other agreements that have been conducted by both sides of politics, there is provision for what they call the movement of natural persons. If you were investing hugely in another country, invariably it's not unreasonable you might want your top executives who help you deliver projects in your own country to at least spend some time on a new project because you know the people and trust them.

"Overwhelmingly the workforce, and that's been our history, our history of a country that has welcomed foreign investment for 200 years, our history has been it's created the jobs for Australians. We won't deviate from the traditional pattern of deal in this regard. The wages, they're set by law in Australia and that will apply again to anything we do with the Chinese."

Mr Robb also expressed hope that a proposed Asian infrastructure investment bank could go ahead with Australian involvement.

"We want to join and we think it would be a great thing for the region," he said. "There's a $750 billion infrastructure deficit in the region and if there is a bank which is able to fill much of that gap, we want to be a part of it. I'm very hopeful, and from the discussions the Chinese have said to me, they want world's best governance practices incorporated into this bank. If that is delivered, we'll be there."
 

Franklin

Captain
Another area where China has beaten the Americans at their own game. Invent a holiday (Single's Day) and use it as a excuse to shop till you drop. Its bigger than Black Friday and Cyber Monday in the US put together. Alibaba sold 1 billion dollars worth of goods in just 17 minutes! Now if they can only wake up to this here in Europe.

Ready, set, shop! Alibaba gears up for Singles' Day

It's that time of year again: When Chinese netizens celebrate not having anyone special in their lives by buying billions of dollars worth of products online.

Singles' Day — so named because the date Nov. 11 has four singles (11/11) — was started as an in-joke between university students, but has morphed into China's equivalent of Cyber Monday. Spurred by Alibaba and its network of online retailers, the day has grown from $7 million in sales in 2009 to over $5.7 billion last year for Jack Ma's company.

And as the holiday moves away from its bachelor roots to become a more inclusive affair, analysts expect more record sales figures.

In fact, Alibaba recorded its first $1 billion in sales this Singles' Day in only 17 minutes — it took about an hour last year. After about the same amount of time this year, Alibaba touched $2 billion in gross merchandise volume:

This year, Alibaba's sales are expected to be about 50 billion yuan ($8.17 billion), a 40 percent increase from last year, according to Ben Cavender, principal at China Market Research Group.

Vanessa Zeng, a Beijing-based Forrester senior analyst for China's e-commerce sector, estimated that sales could even reach 60 billion yuan ($9.8 billion) with the continued growth of mobile shopping in China. Alibaba said it saw $32 billion in sales on mobile in September alone.

But the day is about much more than just posting big sales numbers, analysts said.

"Alibaba uses this event to reward consumers and reinforce its e-commerce influence in China market," Zeng said. "The Singles' Day event has become the most influential e-commerce campaign in China. Almost all e-tailers and even offline retailers join this event. Alibaba tries to demonstrate its leading position and gather as many merchants as possible to its platform through this event, and hit its competitors."

Alibaba, which went public on the New York Stock Exchange in September, has seen its stock surge more than 72 percent from its record $25 billion IPO price. Its competitors in the Chinese e-commerce space, meanwhile, will be hoping to catch some of the Nov. 11 sales fervor. JD.com, Suning and VIP.com have all been marketing heavily for the sales festival, Zeng said.

Even brick-and-mortar sales operations in China are getting in on the action because they "don't want to be left behind," said Sandy Shen, Shanghai-based director of e-commerce research at Gartner.

Alibaba, though, is pressing hard to completely own the holiday, analysts said. This year's Singles' Day has seen the company push a "globalization" theme that enables shoppers throughout the world to participate through the English-language AliExpress platform, Zeng said.

In total, Alibaba's network will include 27,000 participating merchants and 42,000 brands.

In some instances, Alibaba is even going local: AliExpress is offering up to 50 percent off on snowboards and related equipment to mark the upcoming ski season in Russia, according to the company.

And while Singles' Day may be an opportunity to bring Chinese e-commerce to the world, Alibaba is also using it to bring the world to Chinese shoppers: The company's Tmall platform is offering products from companies, like American Eagle Outfitters and Calvin Klein, otherwise missing from China's retail landscape.

Alibaba said it predicts that popular items for this year will include mixed nuts from Costco, and cosmetics from Japan.

Preorders for the event started in mid-October: Consumers can pay a deposit upfront to reserve the product at the Singles' Day price and pay the balance on Tuesday.

Duan Ling, a 20-year-old student in Beijing, said he has already spent hours on websites like Taobao and Tmall. "You don't usually get so many special deals, so 11/11 is the best time to grab whatever you want," she said. "But it's not good for my bank account."

Delivery staff, meanwhile, are bracing for a busy day. "11/11 might be fun and shopping for many, but for us, it is busy, busy, busy. I have to work extra hard to make sure delivery is on time. There's more than the usual amount," said Ye Junrong, who works for an express delivery service.

Roughly 1.25 million delivery personnel are expected to be utilized, according to Alibaba. shop! Alibaba gears up for Singles' Day.

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