Chinese Economics Thread

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HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
SanWenYu said:
I wouldn’t be interested in finding how they count differently. There is a chance that the FT piece made up the numbers for its anti-China narrative.
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They sourced it from Preqin, a data analytics firm based in London. They're a BlackRock subsidiary, and logically speaking, BlackRock would be interested in getting accurate data since they make their investment decisions based on accurate data.

But I can't really verify your report either anyway. I don't even know what it's saying, I'll have to translate it at home later.
 
Bellum_Romanum

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
HighGround said:
I don't think this is a fair summary to be honest.

I think abe correctly points out the weak point of the Chinese economy and how it puts the rest of the economy at risk. Which it does, that's generally how systems collapse. A gaping weakness in one section can bring down the whole.

I also think the antagonism and hostility with which Abe's points have been approached is reasonable. I don't think Abe disputes the strong indicators of China's economy. Furthermore, rather than tackling Abe's points with relevant data, most of the debate seems to be talking past them. Yes, I've seen electricity consumption graphs... 5 pages in a row now, but they don't address the effect of deflation on nominal debt. Nobody has acknowledged how falling price levels affect firm profitability, and therefore job numbers (one of the first things to get cut).

=======================================================

I.E. There are plenty of positive points to be made about China, but sometimes there's too many of those points. This thread does end up being a bit echo-chambery. I also think Abe pointed out something very true.

GlennLuk does do a very good job of offering explanations and analysis that repudiate many detractors like Michael Pettis. On the other hand, there needs to be a more pessimistic analysis as well. The issue of consumer confidence and stagnant consumption is real, and the stubborness of this issue should get greater attention and scrutiny in this thread.
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The term "ECHO CHAMBER" coming from @abenomics12345 is offensive and disengenuous.

It's offensive to the majority of the people that post on this forum and especially this thread. Since the overwhelming data and sub data when discussing the Chinese economy are not even littered with, or close to fawning and overly praising the performance of the economy, or that most of us are not aware of the current dilemma. While it is true that there are problems that is afflicting the economy, we (and I am including myself in this regard) are more than quite aware of the challenges which are present and lived by a lot of Chinese folks in the mainland.

However, given the set of circumstances coming MAINLY FROM THE GEOPOLITICS, GEOECONOMICS, Act of God pandemic, post-pandemic the state of Chinese economy is relatively speaking pretty f..ng decent.

Out of nowhere China has become the largest automotive exporter in the world. I am also quite confident that it'll be the same in the semiconductor industry and other high value chain products that China and the Chinese economy needs to move into. Which is the primary driver of consternation from the entire western sphere.

I also find Abe's take quite disengenuous and somewhat unhinged that most of the people here have maintained a sane look and appreciation on how the current leadership remains steady in its handling of the overall economy despite all the heavy challenges it faces.

This site is ONLY ONE OF THE VERY FEW WEBSITES in the west that is objective and free from the overwhelming ANTI-CHINA BIAS that exist in all the western media platforms, and you along with @abenomics12345 are complaining of echo chamber? Wowee!!

There's literally not a single topic about anything that even remotely discuss about Chinese related content that do not devolved into anti-Chinese rant from the usual "experts" who usually spews with venomous invectives and incredulity when their "enlightened western views" are not wholly swallowed as the gospel truth much like how @abenomics12345 sounds.

The disagreement on the economic issues that's grappling China ought to be handled with genuine interest for exchanging views, and yes even contrarian ones because that's some of the ways we can learn and glean from each other's perspectives. But @abenomics12345 comes across quite indignant that his insights and takes are not easily swallowed by the ostriches on this forum as if to suggest that most people here are purposely obtuse and allergic to a well reasoned and articulated logical argument because we don't want to be confronted with an uncomfortable reality that CHINA's economy is shit.

Your insight(s) is but one of many and your expertise, experience is not sufficient enough to make sweeping judgement about the overall trajectory of China's economic growth or failure. The prescribe suggestions for a supposed cure are not something that we can assume to have not been discussed, DEBATED, and looked into by people that have managed to place China's economy to where it's today. As a rule of thumb, I am predisposed to go with the leadership who's have had a hand in leading the country's economic development that's unprecedented in human modern history than from someone or some think tanker who's reputation, expertise, and credibility hasn't build anything of actual value to the betterment and livelihood of people other than their own pockets.
 
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siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
HighGround said:
They sourced it from Preqin, a data analytics firm based in London. They're a BlackRock subsidiary, and logically speaking, BlackRock would be interested in getting accurate data since they make their investment decisions based on accurate data.

But I can't really verify your report either anyway. I don't even know what it's saying, I'll have to translate it at home later.
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I’m sure Black Rock has nothing against the Chinese government at all…

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
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FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
HighGround said:
They sourced it from Preqin, a data analytics firm based in London. They're a BlackRock subsidiary, and logically speaking, BlackRock would be interested in getting accurate data since they make their investment decisions based on accurate data.

But I can't really verify your report either anyway. I don't even know what it's saying, I'll have to translate it at home later.
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US government also is interested in accurate data since they make their strategic decisions based on accurate data.

Does that mean you 100% trust all the information they release for public consumption without question?

For legal purposes: yes I do. Please enjoy your freedom of speech in a well regulated and responsible manner.
 
T

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
HighGround said:
They sourced it from Preqin, a data analytics firm based in London. They're a BlackRock subsidiary, and logically speaking, BlackRock would be interested in getting accurate data since they make their investment decisions based on accurate data.

But I can't really verify your report either anyway. I don't even know what it's saying, I'll have to translate it at home later.
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Due a change in Chinese law in 2021 having reliable VC investment data inside China is not longer possible, the websites were you could be able are either no accessible outside China or stopped updating their data. SemiEngineering used to post China VC investment in semiconductor, which Chinese startups made the majority, they stopped doing so because due "changes in regulations in China" now they mostly post a few Western companies. My guess that companies in that article are just publishing data from the investment of some Western companies.
 
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