Chinese Economics Thread

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
The US still has the aerospace industry, computer hardware, and computer software companies. It has large companies which make industrial machines for farming and mining. But it certainly isn't like it used to be.

Civilian ship construction is basically gone. Even relatively recent sectors like chip manufacturing where the US used to dominate, now it lags. Detroit is a dead zone.

Given the troubles Boeing is having I wonder if the civilian airliner industry is going to continue. If it wasn't for the fact that Airbus cannot deliver more aircraft, I think Boeing would have been dead.
 

Michaelsinodef

Senior Member
Registered Member
So is it fair to say that china's real economy is larger

While US's financial economy is larger
Overall, pretty much like that, yes.

Sure, if going into details, there is innovative areas (say such as computer/software and medical industry) and some of these areas/companies within them are at the forefront of their area.

But overall, one can say that China's real economy is larger while US financial economy is larger.
 

kentchang

Junior Member
Registered Member
Overall, pretty much like that, yes.

Sure, if going into details, there is innovative areas (say such as computer/software and medical industry) and some of these areas/companies within them are at the forefront of their area.

But overall, one can say that China's real economy is larger while US financial economy is larger.

The US financial market is FAR larger with a century of domestic accumulated wealth and money parked by petrodollar investors. It will take China decades to equal just like the CO2 situation in our atmosphere. US and Europe will remain prosperous regions into the 22nd Century whether or not one agrees with the fairness. Of course gringos love to fight wars so that may deplete their wealth faster (e.g. "World War I" should have been called the "European Civil War").
 

Michaelsinodef

Senior Member
Registered Member
The US financial market is FAR larger with a century of domestic accumulated wealth and money parked by petrodollar investors. It will take China decades to equal just like the CO2 situation in our atmosphere. US and Europe will remain prosperous regions into the 22nd Century whether or not one agrees with the fairness. Of course gringos love to fight wars so that may deplete their wealth faster (e.g. "World War I" should have been called the "European Civil War").
Disagree.

The financial market/sector can crash very quickly, especially when it's not based on real economy (which is the case for US).

Overall, I say wait 10 years, and we see which of us will be right.
 

Randomuser

Junior Member
Registered Member
Disagree.

The financial market/sector can crash very quickly, especially when it's not based on real economy (which is the case for US).

Overall, I say wait 10 years, and we see which of us will be right.
Just remember Lehman was one of the bulge bracket investment banks. And then one day it went bankrupt quickly. Before last year Credit Suisse was considered a safe big bank. Now it no longer exists as a independent entity.

It only takes a few bad derivative bets to mess up everything.
 

kentchang

Junior Member
Registered Member
Disagree.

The financial market/sector can crash very quickly, especially when it's not based on real economy (which is the case for US).

Overall, I say wait 10 years, and we see which of us will be right.

No need to wait. You are very wrong. Your doom and gloom sounds more like Gordon Chang from an alternate universe. Ten years is such an incredibly short horizon and a real crash is improbable. World economy is doing well and USD will still be dominant and equity/stock market is such a small proportion of Fixed Income. London and GBP are still a big part of world finance and trade 80 years after the British Empire ended. 1.3B people in China earn less than USD$1K per month thus still a very long way to go. Service industry skillsets are not very transferrable between countries by design/self-protection. Ten years from now, a typical American's barber/grocery bills, legal, and medical costs will only go up, not down. Simply too many reasons why nothing much will happen in the next ten years. The US and EU economic decline is only relative to the faster growth of the world economy and less than 1% per year.

US has been de-industrializing since the 1980's and I hope you agree it is still humming along. Credit Suisse publishes an annual summary of global wealth. Very educational and sobering. Look at past empires. The Italians, Spaniards, and Dutch are still doing rather well. So are the Swedes and Japanese. Sweden was the fastest growing country in the 19th Century. Japan is the fastest growing country in the 20th Century. Both are fading away gracefully. Same will happen to the US like simmering a frog. No sudden jolt or pain and it will be decades from now (like Detroit). Just like retirement collecting a nice pension (accumulated private wealth).

I hope you agree this fade-slow scenario is the best for all because it also means in the worst case China loses its global economic dominance in the 22nd Century, the Chinese people will still do quite well into the 23rd and maybe the 24th Century.
 

kentchang

Junior Member
Registered Member
Just remember Lehman was one of the bulge bracket investment banks. And then one day it went bankrupt quickly. Before last year Credit Suisse was considered a safe big bank. Now it no longer exists as a independent entity.

It only takes a few bad derivative bets to mess up everything.

So how is the US doing today? Hiccups and recessions happen all the time. Did US collapse in 2008? Did Switzerland collapse in 2023?

There is a HUGE difference between a systemic failure in one industry and the total collapse of a country.
 

emblem21

Major
Registered Member
So how is the US doing today? Hiccups and recessions happen all the time. Did US collapse in 2008? Did Switzerland collapse in 2023?

There is a HUGE difference between a systemic failure in one industry and the total collapse of a country.
The USA economy only survived in 2008 thanks to China helping to buy US treasuries at a time when they desperately needed the help and after all the things the USA has done as thanks, don’t expect a second miracle to happen. Considering all those retail businesses going bankrupt as well as all those supply chains being messed Ip due to their trade wars, I wouldn’t simply write off a recession in the USA as being a mere bump in the road since that assumes that miracles can happen at random to delay the inevitable which to be honest doesn’t always

Also in regards to Switzerland, I wouldn’t bank on their banking industries remaining as competitive as before with the stupid stuff they tried to do with Russia assets, this only creates a bad precedent that will ensure that many of their global south clients will will looking elsewhere to store their wealth. It only takes one blunder like this to destroy one’s reputation and this is one area the Swiss cannot afford to screw up given how much their industry is tried to their banking


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Sure the USA won’t collapse in a day but if Biden doesn’t stop focusing on what doesn’t matter outside the country and instead focus more on the problems inside the country, things can go from bad to worse very fast, especially when the fundamentals have eroded so much already
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
The UK financial sector has been imploding ever since they left the EU.

I would say that their banking sector also took a dent after they stole Venezuela's gold. Their persecution of Russian billionaires also isn't going well. I keep reading about rich foreigners dumping the UK. Particularly Chinese and Arabs.

A lot of people seem to be moving to the Emirates and Abu Dhabi.
 
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