Chinese Economics Thread

donjasjit

New Member
Registered Member
China is one of the least trade driven economies in the world. Put another way, China is among the world’s most domestically oriented economies.

I thought the opposite, I was wrong. The facts prove it. Have a look at the article below, especially the chart

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Today, I have learned two things about China which changed my views.

First, the property market. I posted this earlier today.

Second, the economy and how little dependent it is on trade.

It seems the fate of the Chinese economy is in the hand of the ordinary Chinese people. The West has very little influence over it despite the sanctions or threats of sanctions.
 

Serb

Junior Member
Registered Member
China is one of the least trade driven economies in the world. Put another way, China is among the world’s most domestically oriented economies.

I thought the opposite, I was wrong. The facts prove it. Have a look at the article below, especially the chart

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Today, I have learned two things about China which changed my views.

First, the property market. I posted this earlier today.

Second, the economy and how little dependent it is on trade.

It seems the fate of the Chinese economy is in the hand of the ordinary Chinese people. The West has very little influence over it despite the sanctions or threats of sanctions.


That article named some data wrongly, trade as a percentage of GDP, or trade-to-GDP ratio in China was not 19% in 2020, but 35%, and in 2022 it climbed to 38%. I think it meant only exports as percentage of GDP which were indeed around 19% in 2020.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Anyway, that's that, thanks to China's tremendous productivity it isn't so reliant on exports as many people think. Domestic consumption is not only domestic services but also goods.

If they lose the trade surplus from the West, they still have all those physical real-life goods-producing factories left, still able to switch the entire production to domestic buyers.

Just inject new money into the economy (through CB, banking, government) and inflation won't rise, because of the rise of productivity accompanying it - more money, but chasing more goods as well.

Yuan's value against major Western currencies would probably tank if trade with the West stopped, but who cares at that point because China is the most self-reliant country in history - it has limitless entirely completed supply chains, and the lack of raw materials and energy could come from Russia.

This is exactly what happened to Russia a year ago btw, its value against the dollar and other Western currencies dropped twice the value it dropped against the yuan for example (it needed to drop that much because it rose too much at the beginning of the war, affecting Russian exports).

Russia still functioning fine, since they don't care, because they already started using local currencies for trade, with the rest of the world, for example, 95% of trade with China, and also phasing out the West as a trading partner entirely, China could as well.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
This is exactly what happened to Russia a year ago btw, its value against the dollar and other Western currencies dropped twice the value it dropped against the yuan for example (it needed to drop that much because it rose too much at the beginning of the war, affecting Russian exports).
The problem of the ruble being high in value was more about the salaries rising much faster than inflation. It was causing issues with the government budget. After the ruble fell in value initially, salaries were increased, only for the ruble to increase in value afterwards. This needed adjustment.

Thanks to the devaluation of the ruble the government's deficit this year is much lower than some analysts were expecting. Also, contrary to what you see a lot of Western analysts say, the deficit isn't being covered by the Sovereign Wealth Fund, but government issued debt to internal Russian investors.

But yes, if trade with the West is broken the value of the currency vs those Western currencies will collapse. Russia also had issues with capital flight because of the SWIFT ban. Russian exporters are now keeping their export income in foreign bank accounts instead of using accounts in Russian banks. This is another issue which the Chinese government needs to take into consideration. It should continue pushing for more trade to be settled in yuan and using its own payment mechanisms.
 

canonicalsadhu

Junior Member
Registered Member
China is one of the least trade driven economies in the world. Put another way, China is among the world’s most domestically oriented economies.

I thought the opposite, I was wrong. The facts prove it. Have a look at the article below, especially the chart
It's important to note that EU countries have high trade as a % of GDP because EU is a tariff-free single market, so the data is a bit distorted by that. If you count the EU as a single economy (as it should IMO) the average would be dragged down substantially I would imagine.
 

donjasjit

New Member
Registered Member
That article named some data wrongly, trade as a percentage of GDP, or trade-to-GDP ratio in China was not 19% in 2020, but 35%, and in 2022 it climbed to 38%. I think it meant only exports as percentage of GDP which were indeed around 19% in 2020.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Thank you for the correction.

China's trade with the global south exceeds that with the west.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The Global south will never hurt their relations with China, no matter what the West wants. The Russo-Ukranian war proves that the "global south" will not follow the West, they will chart their own course.

Hence, the west can influence only 15-20 % of China's GDP though trade sanctions and boycotts.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Thank you for the correction.

China's trade with the global south exceeds that with the west.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The Global south will never hurt their relations with China, no matter what the West wants. The Russo-Ukranian war proves that the "global south" will not follow the West, they will chart their own course.

Hence, the west can influence only 15-20 % of China's GDP though trade sanctions and boycotts.
The US called themselves an Indispensable Nation, while its true on certain degree (politics, media and finance) BUT in reality the Chinese deserved that title. ;)
 

sunnymaxi

Captain
Registered Member
Speaking of trade. Here's South Korea's trade balance with China over the last 30 years.

View attachment 122781

I think this a good illustration of China climbing the value-add ladder.
According to the Ministry of Trade, Industry and Energy on Wednesday, Korea's exports to China totaled $114 billion in the first 11 months of this year, while imports amounted to $132 billion, resulting in an $18 billion deficit. The monthly trade balance began with a $3.9 billion deficit in January and stayed in the red since.

if i m not wrong. Australia, Switzerland, Russia and Taiwan now stand alone as the only industrial countries that still have trade surpluses with China.. It’s going to get worse for everyone from here on out. as China continue to climbing up in value added supply chain..

only resources and semiconductor rich countries have trade surplus with China ..
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
According to the Ministry of Trade, Industry and Energy on Wednesday, Korea's exports to China totaled $114 billion in the first 11 months of this year, while imports amounted to $132 billion, resulting in an $18 billion deficit. The monthly trade balance began with a $3.9 billion deficit in January and stayed in the red since.

if i m not wrong. Australia, Switzerland, Russia and Taiwan now stand alone as the only industrial countries that still have trade surpluses with China.. It’s going to get worse for everyone from here on out. as China continue to climbing up in value added supply chain..

only resources and semiconductor rich countries have trade surplus with China ..

I wouldn't call Australia or Russia as industrial countries.

They are really resource countries
 

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
I wouldn't call Australia or Russia as industrial countries.

They are really resource countries
Country need industry to extract resources, so two types are not mutually exclusive. In this case Russia has good gas industry, nuclear industry, mineral refinement, and of course military industry. Russia handle resource extraction on its own instead of rely machinery imports. Same cannot be said of Australia. Australia is resource and service.

In this case I think it is using "industrial country" in its old meaning, which is "developed country".
 
Top