Chinese Economics Thread

tamsen_ikard

Junior Member
Registered Member
Nominal GDP is heavily skewed towards the US due to an undervalued RMB and high US inflation.

PPP is not perfect, but is a far more accurate measure of economic size, power and influence.

According to PPP, India is a 13 trillion dollar economy and is the 3rd biggest in the world and several times bigger in size and importance compared to Japan and Germany. This is simply not true.

PPP is not a good measure of GDP since it overinflates service GDP of poorer countries. Which is why GDP PPP is so high in India.

GDP nominal of US is obviously also inflated by its high cost of services, but there is a reason why service in US is so costly. Its because it has enough exports in strategic sectors that it dominates high tech sectors and finance. Because of this it has huge number of high paying jobs in those sectors and thus labor is costly enough to allow even low skilled service jobs like flipping burgers provide so much income. Its a sign of American economic strength and dominance.

GDP nominal is the only objective measure of economic power since it takes into account the power of its exports and imports. If a country cannot export enough high quality goods then its GDP nominal will be lower since its currency cannot sustain a high value.

If China's yuan is undervalued, then its a sign of China's weakness that its economy is still not strong and dominant enough to allow its currency to have its true value. China still has ways to go before it is the true number 1 economy in the world.

China is humble enough to know its place. It knows no point trying to boast by using shortcuts like PPP. Once China becomes truly rich enough that its own brand of cars, microchips and software dominate the world, then it will not need to boast about it using GDP figures. Before that time, its still much weaker than the west.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
According to PPP, India is a 13 trillion dollar economy and is the 3rd biggest in the world and several times bigger in size and importance compared to Japan and Germany. This is simply not true.

PPP is not a good measure of GDP since it overinflates service GDP of poorer countries. Which is why GDP PPP is so high in India.

GDP nominal of US is obviously also inflated by its high cost of services, but there is a reason why service in US is so costly. Its because it has enough exports in strategic sectors that it dominates high tech sectors and finance. Because of this it has huge number of high paying jobs in those sectors and thus labor is costly enough to allow even low skilled service jobs like flipping burgers provide so much income. Its a sign of American economic strength and dominance.

GDP nominal is the only objective measure of economic power since it takes into account the power of its exports and imports. If a country cannot export enough high quality goods then its GDP nominal will be lower since its currency cannot sustain a high value.

If China's yuan is undervalued, then its a sign of China's weakness that its economy is still not strong and dominant enough to allow its currency to have its true value. China still has ways to go before it is the true number 1 economy in the world.

China is humble enough to know its place. It knows no point trying to boast by using shortcuts like PPP. Once China becomes truly rich enough that its own brand of cars, microchips and software dominate the world, then it will not need to boast about it using GDP figures. Before that time, its still much weaker than the west.
There's a direct objective measure of the power of exports and imports with nothing to do with 'nominal GDP'. It is a highly technical and obscure measurement used only by elite economists, I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's called "trade."

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tamsen_ikard

Junior Member
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There's a direct objective measure of the power of exports and imports with nothing to do with 'nominal GDP'. It is a highly technical and obscure measurement used only by elite economists, I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's called "trade."

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And countries with extremely high nominal GDP top that list. Poor countries with high GDP PPP like India, Russia or even Pakistan (bigger in GDP ppp than Netherlands, the country of ASML, Philips) do not matter in that list. You should also look at another type of exports that is not captured in lists like this. Which is the export of Brands. US and other rich countries have global brands that dominate the world, including poor countries. This includes brands of Internet services like Google to Brands of things like Foreign Banks like HSBC to Walmart, Mcdonalds.

Where is Indian version of Walmart or Chinese Mcdonalds?

US maybe importing massive number of goods. But its companies dominate the world of designing, managing, controlling the same goods through its brands. That's what gives it power.

Unless China also develops its own brands and simply acts as a contract manufacturer. It will always be weaker compared to US.

Thankfully China is moving towards developing its own brands on many things such as Cars, TVs and phones. But there are many goods where it needs to dominate.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
And countries with extremely high nominal GDP top that list. Poor countries with high GDP PPP like India, Russia or even Pakistan (bigger in GDP ppp than Netherlands, the country of ASML, Philips) do not matter in that list. You should also look at another type of exports that is not captured in lists like this. Which is the export of Brands. US and other rich countries have global brands that dominate the world, including poor countries. This includes brands of Internet services like Google to Brands of things like Foreign Banks like HSBC to Walmart, Mcdonalds.

Where is Indian version of Walmart or Chinese Mcdonalds?

US maybe importing massive number of goods. But its companies dominate the world of designing, managing, controlling the same goods through its brands. That's what gives it power.

Unless China also develops its own brands and simply acts as a contract manufacturer. It will always be weaker compared to US.

Thankfully China is moving towards developing its own brands on many things such as Cars, TVs and phones. But there are many goods where it needs to dominate.
Ah OK so Taiwan is just a contract manufacturer with few brands of their own, and the ones they do have like Asus and HTC are almost dead.
 

56860

Senior Member
Registered Member
According to PPP, India is a 13 trillion dollar economy and is the 3rd biggest in the world and several times bigger in size and importance compared to Japan and Germany. This is simply not true.
By PPP, India is barely twice as large as Germany and Japan, while having easily over 11 times as many people as either Germany or Japan.

No, I don't find it inaccurate that India has a larger PPP. Try again.

If anything, PPP shows how economically backwards India is.
 
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Biscuits

Colonel
Registered Member
According to PPP, India is a 13 trillion dollar economy and is the 3rd biggest in the world and several times bigger in size and importance compared to Japan and Germany. This is simply not true.
Except it is tho. We clown on India because it is very far behind even the number 2, and most of that Indian gdp goes towards keeping the country itself afloat.

But India is surely a lot more useful than fucking Germany lol. Germany which has a miniscule army that can donate at the most a few hundred T72 equivalents, their supposed strong point being their industrial sector, which is comparable in quantity and quality to a single Chinese province.

Yes, India is undeniably more powerful than that, and the real, adjusted, comparative gdp is needed in order to represent that reality.
PPP is not a good measure of GDP since it overinflates service GDP of poorer countries. Which is why GDP PPP is so high in India.

GDP nominal of US is obviously also inflated by its high cost of services, but there is a reason why service in US is so costly. Its because it has enough exports in strategic sectors that it dominates high tech sectors and finance. Because of this it has huge number of high paying jobs in those sectors and thus labor is costly enough to allow even low skilled service jobs like flipping burgers provide so much income. Its a sign of American economic strength and dominance.

GDP nominal is the only objective measure of economic power since it takes into account the power of its exports and imports. If a country cannot export enough high quality goods then its GDP nominal will be lower since its currency cannot sustain a high value.
Absolutely wrong. There is no such thing as comparing nominal GDP between 2 different currencies.

The reason is simple, if you do not calculate inflation, you're using 1 country's standards to calculate everyone else's.

If you forget to calculate inflation, what you're looking at is an alternate reality where for example Chinese people pay 100 000$ for a simple surgery, or pay 10$ for a carton of eggs. What your measure is saying is that in this alternate reality, China would be a smaller economy than the US. But that is wrong and not reflecting of reality.
If China's yuan is undervalued, then its a sign of China's weakness that its economy is still not strong and dominant enough to allow its currency to have its true value. China still has ways to go before it is the true number 1 economy in the world.
No, that is just how the central bank believes is most conductive to growth.

To provide you of an example of why not normalising for inflation will give you shit results: consider the following, China can simple decide to massively hike the RMB and conduct several big "transactions" which do not affect the economy (if you normalize it out), that way, the gdp nominal of China would hike by trillions within 1 day. Using that method, China can have a nominal GDP of 40, 50 trillion, really the sky is the only limit.

But if you normalize for inflation, China would still fall back to the 32.9 trillion that their economy actually is.

You do not evaluate how someone looks based on photoshop picture, because that is temporary and prone to personal fluctuations. You look at them based on what they actually look like, because that is a non quickly unalterable product.
China is humble enough to know its place. It knows no point trying to boast by using shortcuts like PPP. Once China becomes truly rich enough that its own brand of cars, microchips and software dominate the world, then it will not need to boast about it using GDP figures. Before that time, its still much weaker than the west.
Per the word's definition, China is the largest economy and market in the world. This isn't a subjective measure that can be avoided with humbleness or what not. It is simply based on the hard numbers and economy sizes.

But just being the largest economy does not mean it can dictate global economy alone. China must still work in collaboration with smaller economies that together make up a larger share than China does.
 

56860

Senior Member
Registered Member
Per the word's definition, China is the largest economy and market in the world. This isn't a subjective measure that can be avoided with humbleness or what not. It is simply based on the hard numbers and economy sizes.
China produces a greater amount of pure goods and services in a year than any other nation. This is an indisputable fact. If you want to measure economic size using the above definition, then China is the world's largest economy.

This is not to say that PPP is the only way to measure economic size. If we were to use Pornhub subscriptions rendered or fentanyl transactions facilitated as the appropriate measure, US would be far and away the world's largest economy. It all depends on how one looks at the statistics.
 
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