Chinese Economics Thread

mossen

Junior Member
Registered Member
Its not just a issue of skill mismatch but there are simply too many college graduates and not enough jobs out there that requires a college degree.

One solution is make going to college harder so there are fewer graduates each year. While college graduates have difficulty finding jobs there are sectors in the economy that have skill shortages.

This is not just only happening in China but pretty much around the world.
Yeah I've been beating this drum for months in this forum. There are simply too many people going to university, both in the West and in China. But the politics of rebalancing that ratio is very toxic because middle-class parents don't like to hear it.


It's not clear to me that having a declining population will be a bad thing given how fast AI is developing. I suspect very young countries will be faced with a gigantic youth bubble with low employment prospects. That is always a recipe for social unrest. The economy we live in now may simply need less human labour going forward.

I guess this also answers the question whether China should embrace immigration. Given that its own native youth are struggling in the job market, I cannot imagine how importing cheap labour from abroad would help matters.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Another piece by HW前HR

这才是我们工业最大底气:中国工业机器人装机量超过了全球总量的50%,连续九年位居世界首位。
日前工信部发布一个信息,2022年中国机器人全行业营业收入超过1700亿元,工业机器人装机量超过了全球总量的50%,连续九年位居世界首位。2022全球的工业机器人排行榜还没有正式出来,不过看到2021年也已经很不错。

国际机器人联合会(IFR)去年Q4正式发布了《2022年全球机器人报告》,报告公布2021年全球工厂新安装了51万7385台工业机器人,同比增长31%。而中国出货达26万8195台、增长51%,占了全球新增市场份额51.8%。中国运行存量机器人突破100万台大关、占全球全球运行中的机器人存量350万台的29%,已经接近三成;这个机器人占全球存量份额也已经接近中国制造业产值在全球的比例。
日本在2021年安装量增长了22%,达4万7182台,占全球市场的9.1%。2021年日本机器人的运行存量为39万3326台,占全球份额的11.2%。可以看出日本无论存量还是增量都差中国老远,特别增量只有中国1/6,这代表了未来日本工业的上限估计只会有中国的1/6。
2021年美国的新安装量3万4987台,增长14%,美国新增机器人只有中国的约1/8了。

中国新增工业机器人断崖式的市场份额,让中国制造业万人员工机器人数量达到322,已经超过瑞典、美国、瑞士等自动化高的国家。中国存量机器人是美国的近6倍。内地的万员机器人占有率也超过香港和台湾,可见中国工业自动化水平之高。从万员工占有机器人比例看,美国要从制造业超越中国已经是零。未来工业一个中国一个外国是大概率会到来的,只要中国的高端起来,欧美日韩的高端份额下去,那么中国制造业份额就可能和新增工业机器人份额一样过半。
而韩国、新加坡和德国的制造业为什么在GDP占比很不错,也和他们工业机器人密度高有关系,中国也要达到韩国那种制造业员工万人一千台以上的密度才合理。

对于中国,现在大多数年轻人是不愿意做生产线的,所以工业机器人的需求会非常庞大;不干生产线,但是做技术工人看护机器则因为相对有技术含量还比较有人愿意干。不过,国产机器人这方面我们还有较大缺口,主要是买日本瑞典等的机器人。但是各国的AI机器人都还没有真正出现,比如会制鞋和做成衣的机器人,只要高级技工示范一遍,机器人通过多个摄像头跟进就会复制岗位技能,那时候中国工业就稳了,高中低都跑不掉。AI工业机器人要是在中国出现,那比CHatGPT意义要大多了。

未来必然是AI机器人在制造业唱主角并逐步淘汰生产线工人。因为我们基础好和技工多,在这次工业4.0变革我们不会被动;庞大的工业机器人是我们最大的制造业底气

We've already talked about higher robot adaptation. He illustrates that well here.

But one thing he brought up that I didn't think about is replacing robots with AI robots. I think putting AI in front of robots is meaningless. I think Robots will become smarter & replace human labor in more industries. Then we may see China reclaim certain low cost industries that it had lost due to rising labor costs. To China, it's more important for AI to be used to create smart robots that can replace labor intensive jobs than ChatGPT.

We've talked about China moving up the value chain to deal with high labor costs. But what if they achieve lower labor costs through high automation in even traditional harder to automate industries that are labor intensive?
 

abenomics12345

Junior Member
Registered Member
Another piece by HW前HR



We've already talked about higher robot adaptation. He illustrates that well here.

But one thing he brought up that I didn't think about is replacing robots with AI robots. I think putting AI in front of robots is meaningless. I think Robots will become smarter & replace human labor in more industries. Then we may see China reclaim certain low cost industries that it had lost due to rising labor costs. To China, it's more important for AI to be used to create smart robots that can replace labor intensive jobs than ChatGPT.

We've talked about China moving up the value chain to deal with high labor costs. But what if they achieve lower labor costs through high automation in even traditional harder to automate industries that are labor intensive?
The 322 per 10000 worker data is wrong. IFR uses the wrong denominator in calculating robot density. Also despite domestic substitution majority of the robotics industry today is still imported. For example RV Reducers are 80% controlled by Nabtesco and Harmonic Reducers 60-80% controlled by Harmonic Drive. As of Q1 2023, domestic robot makers make up of about 40% of robots sold. The person who wrote the piece you quote oozes someone who is a novice whose clearly not done the research into the industry.

Domestic substitution will happen, just that it isn’t there today. We can have this conversation in 2025/2027.
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
The 322 per 10000 worker data is wrong. IFR uses the wrong denominator in calculating robot density. Also despite domestic substitution majority of the robotics industry today is still imported. For example RV Reducers are 80% controlled by Nabtesco and Harmonic Reducers 60-80% controlled by Harmonic Drive. As of Q1 2023, domestic robot makers make up of about 40% of robots sold. The person who wrote the piece you quote oozes someone who is a novice whose clearly not done the research into the industry.

Domestic substitution will happen, just that it isn’t there today. We can have this conversation in 2025/2027.
Read his post again. He never claimed robots in China are mostly domestic made. He said China has the most robots in the world.

国产机器人这方面我们还有较大缺口,主要是买日本瑞典等的机器人。
 

broadsword

Brigadier
The 322 per 10000 worker data is wrong. IFR uses the wrong denominator in calculating robot density. Also despite domestic substitution majority of the robotics industry today is still imported. For example RV Reducers are 80% controlled by Nabtesco and Harmonic Reducers 60-80% controlled by Harmonic Drive. As of Q1 2023, domestic robot makers make up of about 40% of robots sold. The person who wrote the piece you quote oozes someone who is a novice whose clearly not done the research into the industry.

Domestic substitution will happen, just that it isn’t there today. We can have this conversation in 2025/2027.

40% is a good improvement from what used to be 25-30% some years ago.
 

abenomics12345

Junior Member
Registered Member
Read his post again. He never claimed robots in China are mostly domestic made. He said China has the most robots in the world.

国产机器人这方面我们还有较大缺口,主要是买日本瑞典等的机器人。
I never said he claimed that? It’s kind of irrelevant saying “oh look we use all this robots” if the country can’t make it. You might as well say “oh look at how many Boeing planes the country uses” and conclude China is a 航空强国. Given this is a defence forum I am evaluating the economy is to ensure that there isn’t a significant neck choke situation in a TW scenario. And in that scenario the robots would be easily sanctioned unless you have domestic capabilities take over. We are not there yet.
40% is a good improvement from what used to be 25-30% some years ago.
Some of that will go back to foreign makers because foreign robot makers didn’t have their supply chains in order. This is also by volume not value. The price gap between domestic SCARA and a Fanuc 6-axis is multiples.
 
Last edited:

broadsword

Brigadier
But why are harmonic drives so hard to replace? There are already local manufacturers. I know it was like zero two decades ago.
 

broadsword

Brigadier
Durability and precision/accuracy not quite there yet. I visited the company that competes with them. Give them 3-5 years.

On the issue of durability, if the government could just ban the use of substandard plastics and metals from the supply chain, the quality of MIC products will move up substantially. But this is an approach no country would ever go with. Do you think the Chinese government would ever deal with the durability issue actively?
 
Top