Chinese Economics Thread

sunnymaxi

Major
Registered Member
Majority of which is from HK - which is actually domestic Chinese companies raising capital in HK and reinvesting back into the Mainland to take advantage of favourable tax policies for foreign capital (so called 超国民待遇).
i don't think so, these are only Chinese companies. though they didn't mention but if we follow the last year pattern,

South Korea , Germany , Japan and USA were the major contributors in FDI. in-fact Germany YOY percentage increase record 67 percent.

The good news is that China is no longer really reliant on true foreign FDI as a source of capital
yes. in 2022, Chinese stock market raised more money as compared to USA. first time this happened. so yes China is no longer really reliant on foreign FDI ..
 

luosifen

Senior Member
Registered Member
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

2023-02-18 10:45:45Xinhua Editor : Mo Honge
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Five financial institutions were fined a total of 387.9 million yuan (about 56.5 million U.S. dollars) for irregularities in their businesses, China's top banking regulator said on Friday.
Bank of China, China Minsheng Bank and China Bohai Bank were fined over irregularities including the misappropriation of loan funds and false statistics, the China Banking and Insurance Regulatory Commission said in a statement.
The commission confiscated illegal gains from China Construction Bank and Standard Chartered Bank (China) Ltd., and fined the two lenders for irregularities such as serious violations of prudent loan management operation rules and non-compliance with wealth management business operations.
Next, the commission will enforce strict administrative penalties in accordance with the law, tighten market discipline, safeguard the legitimate rights and interests of financial consumers, and urge banks and insurance institutions to operate in compliance with laws and regulations to defuse financial risks, it said.
 

abenomics12345

Junior Member
Registered Member
i don't think so, these are only Chinese companies. though they didn't mention but if we follow the last year pattern,

South Korea , Germany , Japan and USA were the major contributors in FDI. in-fact Germany YOY percentage increase record 67 percent.


yes. in 2022, Chinese stock market raised more money as compared to USA. first time this happened. so yes China is no longer really reliant on foreign FDI ..

Growth =/= Contribution. If you looked at the data you would not think the way you think now:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

These two sources are obviously not from 2022, but given the massive base of Hong Kong - high % growth elsewhere doesn't change this directionally. However, this took about 30 seconds of Googling to find out.
 

sunnymaxi

Major
Registered Member
Growth =/= Contribution. If you looked at the data you would not think the way you think now:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

These two sources are obviously not from 2022, but given the massive base of Hong Kong - high % growth elsewhere doesn't change this directionally. However, this took about 30 seconds of Googling to find out.
you cannot compare 2015 with 2022-23. in 2022 Hong Kong capital market was dead. Mainland has overtaken HK.

Its foreign firms investing in China to expand their production lines and open new research centers.
 

abenomics12345

Junior Member
Registered Member
you cannot compare 2015 with 2022-23. in 2022 Hong Kong capital market was dead. Mainland has overtaken HK.

Its foreign firms investing in China to expand their production lines and open new research centers.

FYI here's the data from 2020 (
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
): HK represents ~71% of all FDI.
1677003375006.png
You're responding to me with a lot of 'feels' and not a lot of evidence.
 

escobar

Brigadier
you cannot compare 2015 with 2022-23. in 2022 Hong Kong capital market was dead. Mainland has overtaken HK.

Its foreign firms investing in China to expand their production lines and open new research centers.
No you are wrong and he is right. A significant portion of these funds flows from Chinese state banks and investors to Hong Kong and is then funneled back as FDI into China
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

sunnymaxi

Major
Registered Member
No you are wrong and he is right. A significant portion of these funds flows from Chinese state banks and investors to Hong Kong and is then funneled back as FDI into China
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
he is right on HK point. but he is wrong about, these are Chinese firms only.

that FDI is from foreign firms, investing in China to expand production lines. this is what i m saying.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

abenomics12345

Junior Member
Registered Member
No you are wrong and he is right. A significant portion of these funds flows from Chinese state banks and investors to Hong Kong and is then funneled back as FDI into China
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
I hadn't seen that Rhodium Group report thanks for sharing.

The broader point is that FDI numbers are no longer as important as they used to be a decade ago at a time when China was reliant on capital for future growth (Think Macroeconomics 101 - Labour/Capital Production function) - much like how FX reserve growth is no longer as important (I'm sure everyone remembers the days of CCTV blasting into Daily 7PM news about how the country generated xxx USD of FX reserves).

The contest has changed, and evaluation of these numbers should be more nuanced as well - it's not a d*** measuring contest.
 

abenomics12345

Junior Member
Registered Member
he is right on HK point. but he is wrong about, these are Chinese firms only.

that FDI is from foreign firms, investing in China to expand production lines. this is what i m saying.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Really, are we going to just rely on some intern at the China Daily to educate us on the state of economic growth? At best, this represents an anecdote - which by the way goes against every shred of evidence I've posted and @escobar has posted via the Rhodium Group article. I suggest you evaluate the evidence before posting your claims based on anecdotes.

That article has actually hit an area where I've spent considerable time doing research and consider myself a SME, at least vs majority of the population - Forklifts. Let me illustrate to you my broader point.

KION is absolutely getting destroyed in China by Chinese peers (Hangcha based in Hangzhou and Heli based in Hefei) - they've completely dropped the ball in updating their products. These is not even a "Foreign quality better but Chinese prices are cheaper" situation - they flatout are getting steam rolled. If you are interested in doing the legwork (as opposed to quoting news articles just because they fit your priors): Go to the Kion Annual Reports historically and look up the number of forklifts they've been selling and compare that with what Hangcha/Heli have been selling.

There is also then this neat little industry website:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
where they used to upload monthly data of forklift production figures in China. Then you can figure out the market share changes over the past years.

So to round out my final point:

1) KION isn't doing well and their China business will likely eventually get steamrolled - they'll be happy to recoup their capital, let alone 'invest more in China'.

2) However, whether KION invests in China or not, is no longer important. Because Hangcha/Heli are doing very well.
 
Top