Chinese Economics Thread

[zhangjim]

Admit it: you were one of the people who fell for the scam.

This is sophistry.It's vicious to make personal attacks and try to question my moral level.
Although this is not a trial, please show evidence, otherwise don't doubt others for no reason.
Don't try to portray me as a opportunist in danger of bankruptcy.Then you want to prove that I'm not trustworthy?

If there is a problem, I should say it. I won't hide my point of view.

 

[Sleepyjam]

This is sophistry.It's vicious to make personal attacks and try to question my moral level.
Although this is not a trial, please show evidence, otherwise don't doubt others for no reason.
Don't try to portray me as a opportunist in danger of bankruptcy.Then you want to prove that I'm not trustworthy?

If there is a problem, I should say it. I won't hide my point of view.

So you admit that these people(the ones being scammed and protesting) are opportunists in danger of bankruptcy and untrustworthy, nice way to to backstab the people you claimed to support just to make yourself look better. You are totally lacking in moral.

 

[Bellum_Romanum]

Blackmail central Chinese government and people and sending video to foreign media??? Why are they trying to draw the foreign media involved? Are they trying to draw the attention from the NGO or NED? Why do I have a feeling they are seed of traitors waiting to burst out. If China in the future going through a difficult time, will they be the first one to betray and suck up to the external force?.

Greed and selfish along with possible corrupt officials are some of the few reasons why this issue has become acute. The greedy idiots wanted to involve the western media to essentially force the hands of the government into helping their various predicament without ever considering the overall ramifications and damages it'll bring, and is bringing to the country. Those shit doesn't matter, what matters for them is the money they think are entitled to receive.

The west will be more than extremely happy to receive those scums (not all are scums, some are legitimately aggrieved but have been misled and further taken advantage by scums) so they can further parrot, enhance, and amplify anti-China talking points like rule of law, lack of freedom, media blackouts cue for "Independent media" as if the media in the west freely and independently reports the news.

I maintain that @zhangjim when you get the chance or opportunity to leave China please do so and further more explore the countries you think are ideals or model for your country to emulate so you can see, feel, breathe for yourself what truly awaits you. But you have to do so not as yet again another "political refugee" or political asylum because you'll be hoisted and show around the facade rather than the realities of whichever western society you decide to visit, work, and potentially live. Experience is the best teacher because talking and debating ideas are too abstract for anyone of us to fully comprehend or realize.

 

[zhangjim]

So you admit that these people(the ones being scammed) are opportunists in danger of bankruptcy and untrustworthy, nice way to to backstab the people you claimed to support just to make yourself look better.

“Either or is ”also a sophistry.The government did not calm the situation at all, but put itself in a position to be denounced.
Two consecutive health code "problems" prove that the government is using abnormal means to control "trouble“.In any case, this crossing of the line will not be tolerated.

Moreover, for protests, it is not recommended to directly use such means with bad influence. I said that due to historical and political reasons, government must be cautious about the use of violence in such matters.

 

[Topazchen]

So it's more stupid and can't deceive anyone.This is not funny, because all the anger will be directed at the government. As a regime with great power different from the west, they have the obligation to bear and appease this anger.
In Chinese public opinion, this is the violent suppression of the people by the government using underworld personnel.In other words, the government is the largest illegal organization.This makes the "legal system" a joke. How to treat the people depends entirely on the mood of the government.

When others do it

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[Bellum_Romanum]

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I don't know if you understand Chinese.

I need to clarify again that what I hate is the incompetent public relations handling method of the government,the end of violence is doomed to make everyone a loser.

Bank executives and shareholders colluded with each other to make a fake system with real procedures.The perpetrator used the name of the bank to cooperate with the network platform to deceive the victim into depositing money in the "bank".This caused the user to operate normally, but the money did not enter the real bank account.
So the bank also denied these "deposits".

This kind of crime is unprecedented, and the government is at a loss about it.To make matters worse, the principal criminal of the case was once arrested, but was soon released and quickly fled abroad.
It is also worth pointing out that rural banks cannot sell financial products，this means that the regulator is derelict.

This incident shocked the financial industry greatly, which triggered a crisis of public trust in banks.Banks have always been arrogant in shirking responsibility, which makes people more anxious.

Then the government's bad handling turned things into the worst.

I think you make a lot of valid points based on your on the ground and prior lived experience. I get that, and can empathize where you're coming from, I really do. But what I am trying to point out that any deficiencies in local government can't be interpreted as yet again another doom and gloom assessment of China is a out to collapse analysis. For the simple reason that this unfortunate situation isn't happening all over the country, it's happened on one or two provinces if am not mistaken so the "crisis" isn't endemic to the system that it'll trigger an intervention from the central government.

What I can understand from your analysis and statement appears that any complaints from the people ought to be address with vigor and seriousness even if from the surface anyone not an idiot can see that people good or bad went to invest their money on a scheme that was too good to be true despite their own doubts. And yet expects the government to bail them out all because some alleged scummy officials colluded allegedly with the scammer(s) and even managed to allegedly profit from the failed enterprise.

There's no place in this world where such an absurd system of rewarding stupidity and gullibility exist, actually there is, in mostly democratic countries where people keep electing idiots despite what their records show and the unfeasability, not to mention absurdity of their promises and plans. For example Sri Lanka, Donald J. Trump I know trade war, Zelensky with his please let Ukraine join NATO and NATO countries not telling their population that war with Russia will bring forth economic pain possibly even losing heat, and electricity along the way.

 

[Sleepyjam]

“Either or is ”also a sophistry.The government did not calm the situation at all, but put itself in a position to be denounced.
Two consecutive health code "problems" prove that the government is using abnormal means to control "trouble“.In any case, this crossing of the line will not be tolerated.

Moreover, for protests, it is not recommended to directly use such means with bad influence. I said that due to historical and political reasons, government must be cautious about the use of violence in such matters.

What is this? I just questioned your logic and moral behavior and your response is government bad? If some asks you what time is it are you going to respond bad government? Seems like it’s your canned response when loosing an argument.

 

[Egg roll]

Greed and selfish along with possible corrupt officials are some of the few reasons why this issue has become acute. The greedy idiots wanted to involve the western media to essentially force the hands of the government into helping their various predicament without ever considering the overall ramifications and damages it'll bring, and is bringing to the country. Those shit doesn't matter, what matters for them is the money they think are entitled to receive.

The west will be more than extremely happy to receive those scums (not all are scums, some are legitimately aggrieved but have been misled and further taken advantage by scums) so they can further parrot, enhance, and amplify anti-China talking points like rule of law, lack of freedom, media blackouts cue for "Independent media" as if the media in the west freely and independently reports the news.

I maintain that @zhangjim when you get the chance or opportunity to leave China please do so and further more explore the countries you think are ideals or model for your country to emulate so you can see, feel, breathe for yourself what truly awaits you. But you have to do so not as yet again another "political refugee" or political asylum because you'll be hoisted and show around the facade rather than the realities of whichever western society you decide to visit, work, and potentially live. Experience is the best teacher because talking and debating ideas are too abstract for anyone of us to fully comprehend or realize.

They are exactly the type of people I worry about, they already jumped up and down threatened to bring the hostile foreign media into this just because they lose some money to scammer. Imagine what they would have done if China one day go through some challenging period. I think it best for the CPC to keep an eye on them to make sure they don’t try to do something crazy.

 

[Bellum_Romanum]

From reading the various posts up til now, I still think it's clear what has to be done by ordinary people.

Which is to WAIT some more, instead of immediately panic and then start saying government bad, didn't handle properly etc.

Legel procedings, investigations etc. takes time, not to mention there might be a need to actually shake up the local government in those villages/towns etc.

EXACTLY!! but people sometimes have these fantastical and unhealthy, not to mention unrealistic views on what, how, when, where the government actions must be done.

If this is how fragile China is supposed to be based on what our friend @zhangjim has described I wonder how China at its current iteration has managed to arrive at its success and also not collapse many moons ago.

I mean, if am the U.S. I won't even bother interfering in the internal matters of China because the Chinese people like @zhangjim and many like him are more than able/capable on destroying the country. Banking problem? China about to collapse, flood problems China about to collapse; haven't retaken Taiwan? China about to collapse; Crypto investment banned? CHINA about to collapse. With friends like these who needs enemies?

 

[Coalescence]

They are exactly the type of people I worry about, they already jumped up and down threatened to bring the hostile foreign media into this just because they lose some money to scammer. Imagine what they would have done if China one day go through some challenging period. I think it best for the CPC to keep an eye on them to make sure they don’t try to do something crazy.

I wonder if the slow response to this incident by the central government is a "wait and see" strategy against these individuals to see what methods they are employing and profiling bad actors or gullible folks that would be easily fooled by this incident. Its a good time to honeypot some opportunistic traitors in the population and in the local government.