Chinese Economics Thread

tonyget

Senior Member
Registered Member
This is my opinion on the Yuan internationalization issue:

CCP is facing a dilemma,they can only chose one. Either give up their current heavy-handed approach on business and economics,and promote Yuan internationalization; Or give up Yuan internationalization, and maintain their current position. You cannot have them both.

As we all know,capital control is the main obstacle of Yuan becoming a major reserve currency. But why capital control is needed?Because without capital control,capital outflow could be devastating. So here is the focal point:why China is particularly vulnerable to capital outflow but the likes of the US or UK are not?The answer is sense of security,capital needs a stable and secure market where they can safely put their money,and China is not such a place.

Remember China still and has always been a "bureaucracy standard" 官本位 nation, not a “gold standard” 金本位 nation. In China power is always prioritized over money. Having money can only get you to certain level in Chinese society no matter how rich you are,if you want to move up further you'd need power. It has been like that through out thousand years of Chinese history,merchant's social status always lower than bureaucrats. This is one of the reason business people don't feel secure about their asset in China.

The other thing is that CCP's frequent “crack-down” on certain sectors is not helping business confidence either. Think about it,if you have invested lots of money in a totally legit business, but all of a sudden the government says that the sector of your business is “undesirable”, and demands you to close the business,how would you feel?For instance the online-education sector,regardless government‘s rationale hold water or not,it is legal to run online-education business. If the government feels the sector is undesirable to the society,they can issue guidelines to regulate and phaseout it gradually. But you cannot just wipe out a legal business sector overnight with little warning,something the CCP did. Real estate sector is the same story,the sudden crack-down caused disastrous consequences. With gigantic developers go bankrupt and economic growth took a big hit. We all know real estate is overheated and needs to cool off,but you just cannot do it in “shock-therapy” fashion. Now facing economic downturn,CCP is making new policy that promotes real estate again. Ironic isn't it 早知如此何必当初. The point is CCP‘s practise on handling business is questionable. It may appear to be an easy and convenient way of regulating business in the eye of bureaucrats,but in the long term such practise weakens the sense of security of business. This is another important incentive for capital to flee China.

Of course CCP is well aware of the situation,but it is very unlikely they‘re willing to make significant compromises in near future. So I don't see capital control will loosen and Yuan become international reserve currency.

Last point is what are some downside if Yuan doesn't become international reserve currency?

(1)If the west impose financial sanctions on China similar to what they did to Russia,include kick China out of swfit,freeze Chinese banks money,confiscate China's oversea assets. China will find itself difficult to trade with countries outside of the west,because you still have to use dollar to trade. If Yuan become a international reserve currency by then,it will be very helpful.

(2)Because China's has to hold too much dollar reserve,and dollar is depreciating overtime. China has to use it to purchase US debt just to prevent dollar reserve value shrinking. And there is no other good alternative financial instruments to accommodate such large scale of money. By doing so will bring us back to the first problem,the US could freeze your money anytime but you still have to put your money in the US. Again,If Yuan is a major international reserve currency,China would not need to keep this much of dollar reserve in the first place.

There are many other reasons why Yuan internationalization could be very beneficial to China,but I just list two which I think are the most crucial ones.
 

Petrolicious88

Senior Member
Registered Member
This is my opinion on the Yuan internationalization issue:

CCP is facing a dilemma,they can only chose one. Either give up their current heavy-handed approach on business and economics,and promote Yuan internationalization; Or give up Yuan internationalization, and maintain their current position. You cannot have them both.

As we all know,capital control is the main obstacle of Yuan becoming a major reserve currency. But why capital control is needed?Because without capital control,capital outflow could be devastating. So here is the focal point:why China is particularly vulnerable to capital outflow but the likes of the US or UK are not?The answer is sense of security,capital needs a stable and secure market where they can safely put their money,and China is not such a place.

Remember China still and has always been a "bureaucracy standard" 官本位 nation, not a “gold standard” 金本位 nation. In China power is always prioritized over money. Having money can only get you to certain level in Chinese society no matter how rich you are,if you want to move up further you'd need power. It has been like that through out thousand years of Chinese history,merchant's social status always lower than bureaucrats. This is one of the reason business people don't feel secure about their asset in China.

The other thing is that CCP's frequent “crack-down” on certain sectors is not helping business confidence either. Think about it,if you have invested lots of money in a totally legit business, but all of a sudden the government says that the sector of your business is “undesirable”, and demands you to close the business,how would you feel?For instance the online-education sector,regardless government‘s rationale hold water or not,it is legal to run online-education business. If the government feels the sector is undesirable to the society,they can issue guidelines to regulate and phaseout it gradually. But you cannot just wipe out a legal business sector overnight with little warning,something the CCP did. Real estate sector is the same story,the sudden crack-down caused disastrous consequences. With gigantic developers go bankrupt and economic growth took a big hit. We all know real estate is overheated and needs to cool off,but you just cannot do it in “shock-therapy” fashion. Now facing economic downturn,CCP is making new policy that promotes real estate again. Ironic isn't it 早知如此何必当初. The point is CCP‘s practise on handling business is questionable. It may appear to be an easy and convenient way of regulating business in the eye of bureaucrats,but in the long term such practise weakens the sense of security of business. This is another important incentive for capital to flee China.

Of course CCP is well aware of the situation,but it is very unlikely they‘re willing to make significant compromises in near future. So I don't see capital control will loosen and Yuan become international reserve currency.

Last point is what are some downside if Yuan doesn't become international reserve currency?

(1)If the west impose financial sanctions on China similar to what they did to Russia,include kick China out of swfit,freeze Chinese banks money,confiscate China's oversea assets. China will find itself difficult to trade with countries outside of the west,because you still have to use dollar to trade. If Yuan become a international reserve currency by then,it will be very helpful.

(2)Because China's has to hold too much dollar reserve,and dollar is depreciating overtime. China has to use it to purchase US debt just to prevent dollar reserve value shrinking. And there is no other good alternative financial instruments to accommodate such large scale of money. By doing so will bring us back to the first problem,the US could freeze your money anytime but you still have to put your money in the US. Again,If Yuan is a major international reserve currency,China would not need to keep this much of dollar reserve in the first place.

There are many other reasons why Yuan internationalization could be very beneficial to China,but I just list two which I think are the most crucial ones.
This are the fundamental differences between the West and China.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
This is my opinion on the Yuan internationalization issue:

CCP is facing a dilemma,they can only chose one. Either give up their current heavy-handed approach on business and economics,and promote Yuan internationalization; Or give up Yuan internationalization, and maintain their current position. You cannot have them both.

As we all know,capital control is the main obstacle of Yuan becoming a major reserve currency. But why capital control is needed?Because without capital control,capital outflow could be devastating. So here is the focal point:why China is particularly vulnerable to capital outflow but the likes of the US or UK are not?The answer is sense of security,capital needs a stable and secure market where they can safely put their money,and China is not such a place.

Remember China still and has always been a "bureaucracy standard" 官本位 nation, not a “gold standard” 金本位 nation. In China power is always prioritized over money. Having money can only get you to certain level in Chinese society no matter how rich you are,if you want to move up further you'd need power. It has been like that through out thousand years of Chinese history,merchant's social status always lower than bureaucrats. This is one of the reason business people don't feel secure about their asset in China.

The other thing is that CCP's frequent “crack-down” on certain sectors is not helping business confidence either. Think about it,if you have invested lots of money in a totally legit business, but all of a sudden the government says that the sector of your business is “undesirable”, and demands you to close the business,how would you feel?For instance the online-education sector,regardless government‘s rationale hold water or not,it is legal to run online-education business. If the government feels the sector is undesirable to the society,they can issue guidelines to regulate and phaseout it gradually. But you cannot just wipe out a legal business sector overnight with little warning,something the CCP did. Real estate sector is the same story,the sudden crack-down caused disastrous consequences. With gigantic developers go bankrupt and economic growth took a big hit. We all know real estate is overheated and needs to cool off,but you just cannot do it in “shock-therapy” fashion. Now facing economic downturn,CCP is making new policy that promotes real estate again. Ironic isn't it 早知如此何必当初. The point is CCP‘s practise on handling business is questionable. It may appear to be an easy and convenient way of regulating business in the eye of bureaucrats,but in the long term such practise weakens the sense of security of business. This is another important incentive for capital to flee China.

Of course CCP is well aware of the situation,but it is very unlikely they‘re willing to make significant compromises in near future. So I don't see capital control will loosen and Yuan become international reserve currency.

Last point is what are some downside if Yuan doesn't become international reserve currency?

(1)If the west impose financial sanctions on China similar to what they did to Russia,include kick China out of swfit,freeze Chinese banks money,confiscate China's oversea assets. China will find itself difficult to trade with countries outside of the west,because you still have to use dollar to trade. If Yuan become a international reserve currency by then,it will be very helpful.

(2)Because China's has to hold too much dollar reserve,and dollar is depreciating overtime. China has to use it to purchase US debt just to prevent dollar reserve value shrinking. And there is no other good alternative financial instruments to accommodate such large scale of money. By doing so will bring us back to the first problem,the US could freeze your money anytime but you still have to put your money in the US. Again,If Yuan is a major international reserve currency,China would not need to keep this much of dollar reserve in the first place.

There are many other reasons why Yuan internationalization could be very beneficial to China,but I just list two which I think are the most crucial ones.
This is a very nice theory but reality got in the way.

In reality, all USD in the world actually belongs to the US government because all USD in the world ultimately belongs to a ledger in the computers of the New York Fed.

The only way to use USD outside cash transactions is through transactions at the New York Fed. When European Central Bank transfers USD to People's Bank of China, for instance what actually happens is that New York Fed is told to deduct X USD from ECB accounts and increase PBOC accounts by X USD.

In reality, that money can be taken by power just as Russian oligarchs and the entire country of Afghanistan found out.

So in reality, any money you have as USD, is not really your money. It's the US government money. You merely have the privilege of using it temporarily.

It is the same for gold reserves. Ukrainian gold reserves are now in the US. Question: does Ukraine still have gold reserves?

To answer that question, we look at Germany. They had a very tough time getting their gold reserves back. And they're a core EU country and NATO ally.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

So... what is an actual capital control? What is actual money or assets?
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
More centralisation is needed. You can always count on the local governments to water down central gov directives/orders.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Even the recent NDRC announcement requiring cities with less than 3 million residents to liberalize hukou policy rings hollow given that the NDRC published the same policy in
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
and
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, and
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
with lower targets in previous years going back to 2014—without major improvements to migrant experiences in China’s largest cities. For two decades, centrally directed hukou reforms have largely been watered down by local governments and offset by more migration, suggesting that recently announced hukou reforms will have little effect on the millions of rural migrants in major cities.

Assuming Xi Jinping secures a third term later this year, his authority as a precedent-breaking core leader would likely allow him to overcome resistance in local governments that stands in the way of his common prosperity agenda and any hukou reforms it may entail, should he choose to continue pursuing such policies.
 

HereToSeePics

Junior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
Meanwhile the Yen is no longer accepted by the non Western world, where all the resources are from. Putin Xi cooperation will slay the Beast.
AA.png

how can someone post a chart without the y-axis that describe exactly what we're looking at? is that the usd/yen? cny/yen? number of infants born in japan annually????
 

SanWenYu

Captain
Registered Member
China keeps pushing to reduce dependency on imported soybeans.

In 2021, China imported 96.52 million tonnes, a drop of 3.8% YOY. Meanwhile, domestic production was 16.40 million tonnes from 126 million mu (about 8.4 million hectares, 1 hectare is 15 mu) of soybean fields.

In 2022, encouraged by the state policies, domestic growth and production are expected to keep rising. And import will keep dropping, to 95.07 million tonnes. According to a researcher who works for the The Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Affairs, the total soybean fields can reach 140 million mu this year. The production can be as much as 20 million tonnes.

While maintaining production of the main corps including rice, wheat and corn, China will try new soybean growth technologies in the coming decade, such cultivating in akali soil, compound planting corn and soybean in same fields, etc.

2021年中国大豆种植面积1.26亿亩,产量1640万吨,进口量9652万吨,同比下降3.8%。
今年,在国家扩大大豆种植政策有力支持下,预计大豆种植面积和产量、消费量均有所增长;进口量下降至9507万吨;
农业农村部农村经济研究中心副研究员 张璟:我们预计2022年起,随着国家启动实施大豆和油料产能提升工程,预计国内大豆面积有望达到1.4亿亩以上,总产达到2000万吨。
《报告》分析,未来10年,在大豆振兴计划等政策强力支持下,中国将在盐碱地扩种大豆、推广玉米大豆带状复合种植技术等方面开拓大豆种植的空间潜力,有望在保证粮食安全不受影响的同时,解决中国大豆自给率偏低的问题。

News report in Chinese:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
Top