Chinese Economics Thread

[antimatter]

Everything that could potentially has been done, is already done.

How about make an offer for Infineon, or Siemens, so far China only made offer for US tech company. If you don't try others you don't know.

how about Supporting Godson, or Longson processor by demanding all academic and government instituiton using that system running on linux.

how about setting high tech labs for R&D in each major universities? A Tsinghua univeristy should have a IC fabrication R&D fab like stanford university.

 

[yehe]

I heard on <Science> 28/8 published an article about 2 Chinese researcher in China made a breakthough recently in Quantum technology, about memory storage I think, could revolutionary computer tech in time, but ofc this is just basic science.

 

[optionsss]

how about Supporting Godson, or Longson processor by demanding all academic and government instituiton using that system running on linux.

That's basically sacrificing other development for Godson. Telling a development team does not matter what kind of stuff you are going to come up with there will be a tons of order anyways, is often the worst way to solve the problem.

 

[RedMercury]

You can't force people to switch because that'll cause a logistics nightmare. You maybe able to subsidize it so much that it becomes almost free (in limited quantities), but that's also asking for corruption.

 

[antimatter]

You can't force people to switch because that'll cause a logistics nightmare. You maybe able to subsidize it so much that it becomes almost free (in limited quantities), but that's also asking for corruption.

Not really, it's easy to know the bottom cost of making each system.
So, when ordering the quantity of systems, you already know the ballpark number how much profit they could make. The government set the price how much they could charge. room for corruption is small.

Dawning supercomputer on the next series will feature the Godson processors.

 

[antimatter]

That's basically sacrificing other development for Godson. Telling a development team does not matter what kind of stuff you are going to come up with there will be a tons of order anyways, is often the worst way to solve the problem.

There is no other development willing to challenge Intel and AMD.
That's it.

Look how Korea and Japan government support their grassroot development at their early time. The tech giants, samsung, hynix, Sony, Nikon are result of strong government backing throughout all those developement years.

It's like a little Child, you need to support him all you could, when the child becomes stronger, then you can let go more..

They have the potential to become the dominant chipmaker in China.
From their processor core technolgies, they could branch to develope the DSPs, and chipsets needed for the mobile phone.

Currently, CHina doesn't have such dominant semiconductor companies.

After they could acquire a FPGA type of companies like Lattice semicondcutor.

So, their products would include Processors, DSPs, and FPGAs,
that's like mini intel, mini TI, mini Xilinx all combined together. By that time, you would have a Chinese version of Samsung, a do it all type of tech power house.

 

[optionsss]

I agree they need support, but the support should comes in terms of financial and political backing. not forcing others to use the product. More like some things Cherry got. Too direct of government involvement sometimes will kill the project rather than make it better.

 

[crobato]

How about make an offer for Infineon, or Siemens, so far China only made offer for US tech company. If you don't try others you don't know.

Why? I'm not sure and I don't think Infineon is that profitable. Memory making business is something you really should not go deep into, since its all cut throat margins. Mostly losing money in the end.

how about Supporting Godson, or Longson processor by demanding all academic and government instituiton using that system running on linux.

No. Isn't that too totalitarian or too much government intervention? For Godson and Loongson to succeed in the long run, they have to stand on their own merits, not government subsidy. For high security military and government systems it maybe wise to go with the local processors, but for something like a clerk's desk I would say no.

how about setting high tech labs for R&D in each major universities? A Tsinghua univeristy should have a IC fabrication R&D fab like stanford university.

I believe there are many labs and research centers in the top universities already.

Look how Korea and Japan government support their grassroot development at their early time. The tech giants, samsung, hynix, Sony, Nikon are result of strong government backing throughout all those developement years.

If you happen to notice, none of them are really dominant in areas like CPU and FPGAs either. You should read about Japan's 5th Generation supercomputer projects or their own attempts to create a challenge against Intel.

Also there is a reason why Xilinx and PLDs (programmable logic devices) are thriving in China, relative to the rest of the world. That's because most semiconductor and electronic firms in China are small, and cannot afford to have large quantities of customized logic fabricated, even though a number of free play fabs are in China like SMIC. So for the small firms, you might as well buy PLDs and do the logic design and product inhouse. When Chinese companies become big enough, like Legend, Haier and Huawei are all fast becoming, the justification to use PLDs becomes less compared to just ordering quantities from free play fabs.

 

[antimatter]

Why? I'm not sure and I don't think Infineon is that profitable. Memory making business is something you really should not go deep into, since its all cut throat margins. Mostly losing money in the end.

No. Isn't that too totalitarian or too much government intervention? For Godson and Loongson to succeed in the long run, they have to stand on their own merits, not government subsidy. For high security military and government systems it maybe wise to go with the local processors, but for something like a clerk's desk I would say no.
.

I think Infineon got rid of their memory divison already, it's call qimonda now.
Infineon still has a large of portfolio of products and technologies.

Some of those totalitarian policy can be highly effective. As evident, state policy demand more clean and renewable energy. Demanding the wind power generators be installed.. Now alot of places in the west Xinjiang, Gansu, wind power generator are everywhere.. China soon be the biggest wind power generator in the world.

I can see benefit if the government can take this approach on the Loongeson , godson project. Give it a shot of steroid.

btw

after suffering heavy lost in US, the sovereign fund now heading to invest in Japan.. OMG what a bunch of losers! got burned at one place and heading to another.


China Investment Corp to start investing in Japan stocks(Agencies)

Sovereign wealth fund China Investment Corp (CIC) will begin to invest in the Japanese stock market, the Mainichi Shimbun reported, citing sources familiar with the matter.


The CIC has entered the final stage of negotiations with Japanese banks to establish yen-denominated settlement accounts, the report said.


A Chinese government-affiliated think tank has surveyed Japanese financial institutions to find out possible reactions to acquisitions by China of up to 20 percent stakes in domestic companies, the report said.


It added that CIC has also been recruiting fund managers with expertise in the Japanese market, and is apparently contemplating investments in natural resources-related firms and corporations with a strong presence in the environmental technology sector.


The CIC will take purely investment positions in the Japanese market without seeking control, the report added.

 

[gartheven2000]

Hhmm...i mostly agree with antimatter. Coming from a technical background, i tend to interpret the world from a physical and social perspective, which is actually the underlying reality of highly abstracted and sometimes inaccurate or even downright fallacious "economic theory".

Everyone is acquainted with the obvious points repeated ad nasuem so i better eschew. As for the less obvious:
1) YES! Forex *should* be channeled back into capital/knowledge creation back in China, and especially for education and R&D of all types plus increasing energy efficiency. There'll be inflation, but the REAL wealth and productivity generated from such investment would more than deflate the monetary phenomenon eventually.

2) Unless China has some incredibly devious plan to exert invisible political influence on the financial institutes it holds large stakes in to further acquire resources, technology or other valuable shares, then fergetaboutit. Financials are freaking pile of turd in the resource-scarce era where technology is everything, and "capital" (without the knowledge), slowly inflated away into nothing.

3) One of the best ways to spend USD reserves is to use obscene amounts of $$$ to buy over all the promising SMEs, and draw away scientific/technical talent from MNCs (since u can't buy the shares) and universities to work in your US based Chinese companies. This reverses the brain drain into a brain gain.