Chinese Economics Thread
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Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
China power shortage has been significantly relieved
China's power supply shortage has been significantly relieved, according to China's major power suppliers. China's major power suppliers, the State Grid and the China Southern Power Grid, which cover most regions of China, said on Sunday that after more than two months of joint efforts by various parties, China has made significant progress in guaranteeing electric power supply, with power supply and demand returning to normal as a result.
The latest data from the State Grid show that the inventory of power coal in the operating area of the State Grid has rebounded to 99.32 million tons, which could be used for 20 days. Latest data from the China Southern Power Grid show that thermal power plants in south and southwest China's five provincial-level administrative regions - Guangdong, Guangxi, Yunnan, Guizhou and Hainan - have 16.71 million tons of coal in inventory in total, which could satisfy 23 days' power generation demands.
Meanwhile, China's economic regulation authorities and state-owned energy entities are taking various measures to increase the supply of coal, natural gas and power to ease power shortage. The country's top economic planner, the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC), has required fossil fuel businesses to step up efforts to increase production. State Power Investment Corporation Limited, a major power supplier in China, has coordinated with its branch in north China's Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region to secure the supply of some 44,000 tons of coal to power stations in northeastern provinces.
The National Energy Group and grassroots-level coal mines of China Coal Group have initiated long-term agreements to cut coal prices and stabilize the market. On the other hand, urged by the China Securities Regulatory Commission and the China Banking and Insurance Regulatory Commission, China's financial institutions are stepping up credit support for coal-fired power stations and heating companies. However, China's power supply system could still face more challenges as the power consumption and the demand for heating in northern parts will both skyrocket in the approaching winter, combined with a shortage of water for hydropower production.
China's power supply shortage has been significantly relieved, according to China's major power suppliers. China's major power suppliers, the State Grid and the China Southern Power Grid, which cover most regions of China, said on Sunday that after more than two months of joint efforts by various parties, China has made significant progress in guaranteeing electric power supply, with power supply and demand returning to normal as a result.
The latest data from the State Grid show that the inventory of power coal in the operating area of the State Grid has rebounded to 99.32 million tons, which could be used for 20 days. Latest data from the China Southern Power Grid show that thermal power plants in south and southwest China's five provincial-level administrative regions - Guangdong, Guangxi, Yunnan, Guizhou and Hainan - have 16.71 million tons of coal in inventory in total, which could satisfy 23 days' power generation demands.
Meanwhile, China's economic regulation authorities and state-owned energy entities are taking various measures to increase the supply of coal, natural gas and power to ease power shortage. The country's top economic planner, the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC), has required fossil fuel businesses to step up efforts to increase production. State Power Investment Corporation Limited, a major power supplier in China, has coordinated with its branch in north China's Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region to secure the supply of some 44,000 tons of coal to power stations in northeastern provinces.
The National Energy Group and grassroots-level coal mines of China Coal Group have initiated long-term agreements to cut coal prices and stabilize the market. On the other hand, urged by the China Securities Regulatory Commission and the China Banking and Insurance Regulatory Commission, China's financial institutions are stepping up credit support for coal-fired power stations and heating companies. However, China's power supply system could still face more challenges as the power consumption and the demand for heating in northern parts will both skyrocket in the approaching winter, combined with a shortage of water for hydropower production.
Debt doesn't need to go to zero. As long as the red lines are not crossed then it's better.
For now, it seems the pressure from the Gov is for Evergrande to finish existing projects.
Search for them. I dont have time to do it for you.
Im not changing the subject. Many of the roads/bridges and specially the HSR built in recent years have had little return.
There are "invisible" truths about this and you are just hiding behind the lack of plain evidence in order to deny them. Of course the chinese government controls state entities and they do what the government wants, dont they????
Is that the best that you can do?
Now you want to run from the reality?
CNBC article about the property market in china. It mentions a estimative that the real estate accounts for about 29% of china´s GDP, and the potencial consequences of that.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
Then you fail and your argument is lost. This is the same level as Donald Trump's "You know it; I know it; we all know it" answer when pressed for evidence.
They're just like "ghost" cities. The West makes fun of them for being empty but then becomes silent years later when they are populated. China plans ahead. We build roads we know will be needed in the future; we don't wait for people to complain that they need a road there with traffic piled up on the dirt path before building a road and disrupting commute.
LOL Have you heard of the story of the King's "Invisible" clothes? You are that king when you make claims like this, hiding behind your inability to provide evidence for your claims, which is the foundation of modern debate.
Yeah, so?
Why do they have to do better when you've done so poorly? They will do better when you have shown yourseld to deserve it.
The reality that you make claims without evidence and call them invisible? LOL
First of all, I find it hilarious that you had time to post this article but did not have "time" to post an article required to document your own "evidence."
Secondly, don't worry about it. China has far greater control over its economy than the West. All of the huge problems that the West had anticipated would kneecap China's economy, hard landing, inflation, debt, China managed them and grew through nonetheless. These are small issues for China but Western analysts thought they were all fatal blows because they represent fatal blows to Western ecnomies without the control and capability of China's economy.
That's not how debate or burden of proof works. You've been told this time and time again. You're not doing your credibility any favors when you continue to do this, and you're certainly not encouraging anyone on this board to respond civilly to your posts.
Infrastructure rarely makes a large return early on. Second of all, which HSR lines specially do you think have made such a low return? Be specific. I think you need to stop being so short-sighted in terms of ROI for infrastructure. Returns are usually on the time-scale of 5-10 years. Sometimes even longer.
It's really simple. Either you have evidence and can present it to us. Or you don't. I have no idea what 'invisible truths' are supposed to mean. If it's so invisible, why are you able to see it? Tell me, does it have something to do with the color of your skin? Or where you are born? Is that the key to see these 'invisible truths'?
When you are unable to engage in actual debate, why should someone spend a large amount of effort to reply to your posts?
And? First off, when talking about these issues, linking journalistic articles usually isn't particularly helpful since they are extremely surface level. Second off, Western Mainstream media really does not have a good reputation when it comes to articles on the Chinese economy (see "Ghost Cities" and "China is about to collapse").
Yes yes, China is totally collapsing. Thank you Gordon Chang.
Meanwhile Xi is now projected to get the mandate to decidedly implement the massive shift towards the new development model. We will see then how the West will cry and whine when this transition is completed
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
When the western media talk about little return from infrastructure investment like train, they are just narrowed it down basically based on ticket sale. But that is not what infrastructure investment meant. They are meant to spur development along the railway, Increase efficiency of good and people transport, promoting investment in hinterland now that distance is not an issue. Development of town and cities along the railway.
So fi you add all those benefit clearly the investment will paid off in a decade
So fi you add all those benefit clearly the investment will paid off in a decade
Yes, you get to move a lot of human labor around the country. With HSR professionals can potentially work in Shanghai without having to deal with the exorbitant housing costs.
The "lowest return" railroads are the ones into Xinjiang and Tibet. Those were made for strategic reasons. The Tibet one is mixed use for passengers and cargo. Those railroads enable the high speed movement of large amounts of people. In case of conflict they can move huge amounts of fully equipped infantry quickly. The line in Tibet is close to the border. The railroads built near the coastal areas and where there is a larger population, they are all reasonably profitable. China still has a higher people per km rail density than, say, Spain has. It will never get to the low point Spain has if you look at the plans it is meant to connect all cities with half a million people. A lot of the cities connected with HSR in Spain don't have that many inhabitants to begin with.
A lot of people seem to be pouring doom and gloom using numbers of pandemic years to make the HSR look bad. By that token all the airlines should have gone bankrupt and all airports should have been dismantled too.
Just like @Hendrik_2000 said the HSR increased land values and thus indirectly increases government income. Just looking at the ticket revenue is reductionist. There are plenty of studies which show improved transportation boosts productivity and average incomes as well. It enables people to more easily move to where there are well paid jobs or to more easily study at better schools.
A lot of people seem to be pouring doom and gloom using numbers of pandemic years to make the HSR look bad. By that token all the airlines should have gone bankrupt and all airports should have been dismantled too.
Just like @Hendrik_2000 said the HSR increased land values and thus indirectly increases government income. Just looking at the ticket revenue is reductionist. There are plenty of studies which show improved transportation boosts productivity and average incomes as well. It enables people to more easily move to where there are well paid jobs or to more easily study at better schools.
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