Chinese Economics Thread

Player 0

Junior Member
Here's a couple of articles about China's wage rises.

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Why Americans should learn to love the renminbi
By David Pilling
Until recently, few workers in America, Europe or Japan spent much time worrying about why they earned 10, 20 or even 30 times what a Chinese worker did. What was it that allowed, say, someone stacking boxes in a US factory to earn multiples of the wage earned by a Vietnamese or Mexican worker?
Some may have fondly imagined that they worked harder or, put another way, that Mexican or Chinese workers were lazy or incompetent. Others, much closer to the mark, may have put their higher wages and productivity down to their country’s institutional advantages: its legal and education system, and its infrastructure and technology. Some, perhaps subconsciously, may simply have considered their superior living standards a god-given right.
Not any more. As hundreds of millions of workers in the emerging economies, especially within Asia, have entered the global workforce, they have begun the slow process of levelling the playing field. Developing countries are improving their standards of education, infrastructure and technology, even if their legal and political institutions still lag behind. Incomes are narrowing. In 1990, at purchasing power parity, gross domestic product per capita in China was $800 against $23,000 in the US, a differential of 29. By last year that had shrunk to 6.2, according to figures from Royal Bank of Scotland. By 2015 it is expected to narrow to 4.3.
This convergence should not surprise us. Poorer countries are correcting the huge divergence in incomes that occurred at the start of the industrial revolution when western economies made unprecedented strides in productivity. That was an aberration, albeit one that lasted nearly 200 years. For a neutral observer who wishes the greatest well-being for the greatest number of people, the reversal of that trend is good news. After all, hundreds of millions of people have crawled from under the rock of poverty.
Back on planet earth, the view looks very different. This week the US Senate passed a bill that seeks to punish China for holding down its currency. In Tuesday’s Republican debate, Mitt Romney, frontrunner as the party’s nominee, accused former US leaders of having “been played like a fiddle by the Chinese”.
That rhetoric echoes real anger about the “disappearing” US middle class. Unemployment is stuck at 9.1 per cent. The US Census Bureau says median wages are lower in real terms than they were in 1999. The presumed natural order, in which American children would automatically be richer than their parents, has been overturned. The plight of the middle class is made all the more bitter by the concentration of wealth among the super-rich. The globalisation that has uncorked opportunity for millions in the developing world has also served the interests of a global elite.
There are things America and other advanced countries can do to raise productivity and to address inequality. But tinkering with China’s currency is not one of them. The arguments, pretty well rehearsed, include:
* Many items supposedly made in China are just assembled in China. A report by the Asian Development Bank Institute in 2010 found that, of the estimated $178.96 wholesale cost of an iPhone, the value of assembly work in China accounted for only $6.50. Most of the manufacturing cost comprises high-precision components made not in low-wage economies, but in high-wage ones such as Japan and South Korea.
* Since June 2005, when the renminbi was first unpegged, the Chinese currency has appreciated 30 per cent against the dollar. The real rate of appreciation is greater given higher Chinese inflation. We should not be surprised that this has failed to do the trick. The yen virtually doubled in value within two years of the 1985 Plaza Accord, with little impact on Japanese exports.
* Even if Chinese exports do become less competitive, jobs are unlikely to flock to high-wage economies such as the US. Rather they will tend to go to other low-wage ones such as Bangladesh, Vietnam, Indonesia and Mexico.
To confuse the issue further, a minority of the vitriol against China and other low-wage countries is spiced by racism. A not-untypical post on the FT’s website recently asked how American workers could be expected to compete against Chinese “coolies and slave labour”? Use of the first term speaks for itself. The second suggests a (probably insincere) concern for the lot of the exploited Chinese worker.
That view does not stack up. Migrant workers have left the countryside in their millions, not because they crave exploitation but rather because city life offers greater opportunity. According to RBS, the average manufacturing wage of Chinese workers has increased tenfold in the past two decades. The differential with western wages is narrowing. Whether it ever closes entirely is quite another matter. But demanding China revalue its currency a little faster won’t make a blind bit of difference either way.


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The watershed moment for China’s beleaguered migrant workers came on a hot day in May last year.

Striking workers at the Nanhai Honda components factory in the southern manufacturing hub of Guangdong province found themselves facing off against 200 enforcers in yellow baseball caps, sent in by their own trade union’s bosses to put them back to work.

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A fight broke out and several were injured -- but the workers made their point, winning an apology from their official union, a 33 per cent pay increase from their employer (amounting to an average of 611 yuan, or $95, per month), and setting an example for many more walkouts that followed at automotive manufacturers that summer.

The case, cited in a new study of China’s labour force, suggests the new generation of migrant workers is very different than their predecessors, who are building China’s roads, railways and cities and running its factories. They are more educated, with some 67.2 per cent having a high school education or more, change jobs more often and are less likely to come straight from the farm. And they are far less willing to put up with the long hours, poor working conditions and low pay that their parents settled for.

“The movement was propelled by regular rises in the cost of living, and a growing sense that workers were being denied a fair share not only of their own company’s profits but of the benefits accruing to society as a whole,” read the report, produced by the Hong Kong-based nonprofit China Labour Bulletin, based on events from 2009 to summer 2011. “The government and employers have been put on notice that the standard business model of the last two decades, of management dictating pay and working conditions to their employees, is no longer sustainable, and that workers need and deserve a greater say in their own affairs.”

Local governments began raising their minimum wage on urging from China’s central government, after the global financial crisis of late 2008 and the massive Chinese government stimulus package that followed. Boosting domestic consumption was key to keeping the Chinese economy afloat, and maintaining public order key to keeping political power.

But unrest grew as exports fell -- China had an estimated 30,000 labour related strike or protest actions in summer 2009 -- and did not let up even as exports recovered. Also grabbing headlines have been a rash of suicides at Foxconn, the electronics manufacturing giant producing Apple’s iPads and iPhones, which forced wage increases and changes in management policy.

Those changing working conditions, while good news for the workers, will eventually have implications for China’s status as a leading producer of cheap goods for the world. The head of Beijing Hyundai Motor Corporation, Jae-Man Noh, told a recent briefing of journalists that increased costs of doing business in China are now “inevitable,” and that protests have shown the need for auto manufacturers to be more aware of the mood among employees.

“We need to let go our perception that the Chinese market is a low price production base,” Mr. Noh said.
 

Player 0

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Here's an article comparing the amount of debt held by the average Chinese to the average American, with that in mind I think the idea that China will collapse because of an American style bubble burst can be compensated by China's fiscal responsibility.

One Big Difference Between Chinese and American Households: Debt
Robert O. Weagley, Contributor

In the fall of 2009, I was invited to Beijing by Tsinghua University to present a keynote address at the first China Consumer Finance Forum. It was a personal honor and it presented an opportunity for this Missouri boy to meet some Chinese leaders in the field of finance. One of the nicest by-products of the trip was to gain access to the first iteration of the Survey of Chinese Consumer Finances, collected by Tsinghua University and funded by Citibank (China) Co., Ltd. The data provide insights into their culture and, upon reflection, clues about our own.

The data were collected from slightly more than 2,000 households residing in fifteen cities within China, all Class-One and Class-Two cities. The data represent the urban Chinese, having greater wealth and income than their rural counterparts. In this group, 73% were married, compared with 59% in the Unites States. Fifty-five percent of the Chinese stopped school with a high-school education or less, while in the United States 46% stopped with a high-school education or less. The average annual household income in China, converted to dollars, was $10,220, compared with $84,300 in the United States (the median US income is $47,300.) One of the few similarities was average household assets: in both China and the U.S., the average family’s assets were about eight times its average income.

At face value, the similarities between China and the United States, with respect to relative levels of assets to income, as well as demographics, are remarkable. The level of debt to average income, however, is not. The average US household debt is 136% of household income, compared to 17% for the Chinese. Moreover, if we include federal borrowing, the United States number increases an additional $109,792 per household, to $224,303 per household or 266% of average household income.

We need to ask the question, Is this sustainable? And where is all of this debt coming from?

For starters, we found that while 85% of Chinese households surveyed owned a home, only 11% carried a mortgage on that property. In the United States 69% were homeowners in 2007, with 70% of them carrying some debt on the property, in the form of a mortgage or a home-equity loan. Some of this is a result of Chinese employer home purchase plans for employees, in an effort to provide housing while limiting indebtedness. In the United States, however, mortgage debt is encouraged through a subsidy in our tax code that, in fact, provides the greatest subsidy to those with the largest mortgage and, typically, the highest incomes.

Less than 1% of urban Chinese use consumer loans to purchase consumer goods, while 47% of all US families have installment loans and 46% carry a credit card balance. Admittedly, consumer credit is necessary to smooth our consumption stream – shifting income from high periods to periods where it is relatively low. In fact, a member of the Bank of China confided to me that increasing the borrowing of the younger Chinese is a goal of the Chinese government to enable them “to not be dependent on the west to support our growth”.

Roughly 12% of the Chinese sample owned a car with only 0.7% of the population (6% of the automobile purchasers) borrowing money to purchase a car. In the United States, anywhere from 73% to 91% of new car purchases involve financing.

The good news is that, in the United States, credit use is decreasing and savings rates are up. Revolving credit decreased at an annual rate of 12% in March and non-revolving credit decreased at an annual rate of 7%. In addition, April of 2010 saw a household savings rate of 3.6%, compared to 3.1% in March, and it has remained over 3% since the fourth quarter of 2008.

In China, however, households save between 25% to 50% of their income. With respect to the question of why China’s saving rate is so high, the answers range from the existence of an excess of males to females, the lack of Social Security, the lack of government provided medical care, or a culturally bound ethic in improving the future for their family.

Whatever it is, Westerners should be grateful for Chinese savings, as it is used to loan money to the United States, thus allowing us to continue down the road our nation has chosen.
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
Will falling prices could make it hard for Western REE companies to find development capital?

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ct 18 (Reuters) -" China's Baotou Steel Rare-Earth Hi-Tech said it will suspend its smelting and separation operations for one month from Wednesday, in an effort to stimulate the market.

Baotou Rare Earth, China's top rare earths producer, said in a filing to the Shanghai Stock Exchange on Tuesday that the move was aimed at supporting Beijing's efforts to preserve rare earth resources and end a sustained decline in prices........"
 

petty officer1

Junior Member
update on Chinese private lending.

China to ‘Strictly Control’ Shadow Banks Risk: Liu

Risks stemming from China’s shadow banking system and private lending must be “strictly controlled,” and such loans will be curbed, the head of the nation’s banking regulator said.

Loans to local government financing vehicles and the real- estate industry, which also pose dangers for the banking system, can be managed, Liu Mingkang, chairman of the China Banking Regulatory Commission, said at a conference.

The government and regulators have already implemented “effective measures” that will ensure the overall risks are “controllable,” Liu said, according to a transcript of his speech posted on the regulator’s website yesterday.

Premier Wen Jiabao last week pledged to support smaller companies after media reports highlighted a credit squeeze that has driven many businesses to the so-called shadow banking system to obtain loans. More than 80 businessmen in the eastern city of Wenzhou have disappeared, committed suicide or declared bankruptcy to avoid repaying debts to informal lenders, the official Xinhua News Agency reported on Oct. 12.

Lending in the informal banking system may be as high as 4 trillion yuan ($627 billion), or 10 percent of gross domestic product, and interest rates range from about 20 percent to 40 percent, Wang Tao, a Hong Kong-based economist with UBS AG, estimated in an Oct. 11 report. That compares with the benchmark one-year lending rate of 6.56 percent.

Lack of Supervision

State-run fund Central Huijin Investment Ltd. said last week it would start increasing its holdings in the nation’s four biggest state-owned commercial banks after their shares dropped on concerns that bad debts are increasing on loans to property developers and companies set up by local governments to build infrastructure.

“It’s undeniable that the lack of supervision and management of local government financing vehicles have created some hidden risks,” Liu said in his speech.

Still, he said, ratings companies and investment analysts have underestimated the nation’s determination and ability to carry out reforms, and are “talking down” the nation’s economy and banking industry.

Local governments, barred from directly selling bonds and taking bank loans, have set up thousands of companies to raise money to fund investment in roads, sewage plants and subways. A report by the nation’s audit office in June found more than 6,576 local government financing vehicles had outstanding debt of 10.7 trillion yuan.

‘Severe’ Credit Outlook

Concerns are also growing that the government’s crackdown on the real-estate industry will leave many companies unable to pay back their loans.

Chinese developers face an “increasingly severe” credit outlook and a 30 percent decline in sales may leave many facing a liquidity squeeze, ratings company Standard & Poor’s said last month.

Banks’ overall bad debt ratio on real-estate lending is lower than 2 percent and recent stress tests show that they can withstand a 40 percent decline in property prices, Liu said yesterday. Property lending accounted for 19.8 percent of total outstanding loans at the end of August, he said.

note, "Banks’ overall bad debt ratio on real-estate lending is lower than 2 percent and recent stress tests show that they can withstand a 40 percent decline in property prices."

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I think 40% buff is a really healthy number, but how did they arrive at that number, and how do they conduct a stress test I have no idea.
 

CardSharp

New Member
update on Chinese private lending.

note, "Banks’ overall bad debt ratio on real-estate lending is lower than 2 percent and recent stress tests show that they can withstand a 40 percent decline in property prices."

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I think 40% buff is a really healthy number, but how did they arrive at that number, and how do they conduct a stress test I have no idea.

Stress test are rarely believed and this one by China will likely have little effect on the markets, since I doubt they will release much of the data or how they did the tests.

I am curious about the 40% number too. I am not sure some of the small local government would agree that a 40% drop in real estate prices would be a tolerable decline.
 

petty officer1

Junior Member
Stress test are rarely believed and this one by China will likely have little effect on the markets, since I doubt they will release much of the data or how they did the tests.

I am curious about the 40% number too. I am not sure some of the small local government would agree that a 40% drop in real estate prices would be a tolerable decline.

I agree, I still remember US housing mortgage security market went through so called stress test, and results are decent, if housing price don't decline more than 5%, banks and its Mortgage backed obligations should be fine, then it turned out that is housing price is not RISING, those so called MBO will become junk.
 

Schumacher

Senior Member
Toyota to use made in China hybrid systems, first time they use non-Japanese systems.

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Toyota to sell Chinese hybrid vehicles
2011-10-22 13:04

Beijing - Leading car maker Toyota said on Saturday it plans to start producing vehicles with Chinese-made hybrid systems by 2015, after it finishes building a research centre in the country.

The energy-saving vehicles would be made and sold in China through Toyota's joint ventures with Guangzhou Automobile Group and FAW Group Corporation, the Japanese firm said in a statement.

The car maker usually exports its key components for hybrid vehicles from Japan.

Toyota is investing $689m in a research and development centre for "environmental technologies" in the eastern city of Changshu, near Shanghai.

Part of the centre opened in April, but construction of a test track, main administration and laboratory facilities is expected to be completed in 2013.

China, which overtook the United States to become the world's top car market in 2009, has become increasingly important for global players as demand in their domestic or export markets deteriorates.

Executives wanting to take advantage of the hype surrounding new energy vehicles are also looking to China, which wants to become a world leader in clean-energy vehicles and has pledged to invest more than $14bn by 2020.
 

delft

Brigadier
I read in my Dutch newspaper today that freight rates for crud oil tankers are now 70 % lower than in 2008 and that many tankers ordered then are now being delivered, so tanker owners are getting into trouble and with them the banks who gave them mortgage on these ships. RBS is now selling ships it financed for a Cypriot owner and that will obviously sell for much less than the new building price. It is said that German banks are much deeper into ship financing..
What will this mean for the yards, many of them Chinese, that produce these ships and will not have orders for similar ships for a long time to come?
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Europe split over China's help over debt
Monday, October 24, 2011 » 01:24pm

Eurozone leaders are toying with the idea of asking China and other emerging powers to help them out of the debt crisis by taking part in a bailout fund, but some are reluctant to call in Beijing.

The possibility of asking for China, Brazil and others to come to their rescue emerged at a summit on Sunday as European leaders scrambled to find ways to boost their defences against the crisis.

The eurozone wants to beef up its 440-billion-euro ($A595.36 billion) rescue fund, the European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF), to convince markets it has the means to protect highly indebted nations such as Italy.

'A quite broad agreement is taking shape on the reinforcement of the EFSF,' French President Nicolas Sarkozy told reporters, cautioning that long hours of negotiations remained ahead in another EU summit set for Wednesday.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel said 'two models' were on the table while EU president Herman Van Rompuy said the two could be combined to provide a 'cumulative effect'.

While they did not provide details, several sources familiar with the talks said negotiations were difficult.

Eurozone leaders are trying to increase the EFSF's firepower without increasing the guarantees each state provides to the fund - a sensitive issue for richer northern nations such as Germany, which are tired of bailing out weaker ones.

One option, according to EU sources, would see the EFSF act as an insurer on part of the debt issued by countries deemed at risk in order to keep investors interested in their bonds. Germany appears to have convinced France to drop its opposition to this idea.

The second option calls for the creation of a second fund attached to the EFSF to garner contributions from nations outside the EU.

This is where eurozone leaders disagree.

'The Chinese have said they are interested, but some (eurozone) member states are sceptical at the idea of having a Chinese contribution to the EFSF,' said a European diplomat.

A source close to discussions on the matter said the fund would be a 'special purpose vehicle' to attract strong investors such as 'emerging nations, sovereign funds and private investors'.

Their capital and guarantees would be used to raise money in the markets and then buy the debt of weak eurozone nations. In return, the EFSF would promise to shoulder any losses in case a nation defaults.

To circumvent fears on a role for China in the EFSF, eurozone negotiators are working on the possibility of the 'vehicle' being attached to the International Monetary Fund (IMF).

The so-called BRICS group - Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa - has voiced willingness to help Europe overcome its debt crisis amid concerns it could spark a new global recession.

The emerging powers, Europeans, and the United States, will hold a key G20 summit on November 3-4 hosted in Cannes, southern France.

They will discuss whether to increase the IMF's resources to combat the eurozone crisis, which emerging nations support but the United States opposes.

Then don't ask, Europe. If they didn't need China, then don't bother. Get all the other countries that are to more your liking to save your butts. But then China is key isn't it or China wouldn't even be part of the question they're pondering. It's just like how the G-20 became important. The G-8 didn't want to include China just because they didn't want China to have that honor. So the G-20 was given a more important role but we all know it was all about China.
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
I read in my Dutch newspaper today that freight rates for crud oil tankers are now 70 % lower than in 2008 and that many tankers ordered then are now being delivered, so tanker owners are getting into trouble and with them the banks who gave them mortgage on these ships. RBS is now selling ships it financed for a Cypriot owner and that will obviously sell for much less than the new building price. It is said that German banks are much deeper into ship financing..
What will this mean for the yards, many of them Chinese, that produce these ships and will not have orders for similar ships for a long time to come?

I would've suggested that they might have to branch into other types of boats.

But Way back in July the New World Shipping Group suspended services on its Pacific South West circuit because they felt that over capacity was affecting shipping rates, and that's during peak season. I also think a couple of other companies had announced that they were pulling out as well because overcapacity.

If thats reflected around other places,are we going to see an overcapacity of container ships and who makes those.?
 
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