Chinese Economics Thread

Equation

Lieutenant General
Every week I read the "Economist" magazine in the bookstore, but I don't buy them unless it's interesting for me to keep. The Economist magazine is notorious for this one sided bias of China's economy "about to implode or fall". Every week seems like a new cause for disaster for China, anything from sex ratio, Tibet, social networks causing this new revolution, and so forth. What I found interesting is that they are 99.9% wrong and go on with something else quickly as if they didn't predict it that way, because they used the words "maybe" and "possible" a lot to cover their tracks in case the journalists are wrong. Even Newsweek magazine editor like Zakaria Fareed (whom I like to read all the time) can get it wrong when it comes to writing about the China. It's like he suddenly turned a 180 degrees and write something negative about the China and the CCP and forget about all the facts that lead it to be the second largest economy in the world.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Didn't mean to say you were. Sorry.

It depends on what you mean by prominent. Personally, I avoid sources like the Wall Street Journal. They don't assign people who case study their subjects to write and are mostly looking to satisfy their audience rather than inform.

Yeah, but I like their Market and Business sections, there's always something interesting going on in the industrial sector whether it's in the US or another part of the world. I do agreed that there seems to be groupie of western journalists having to bad mouth about China or a certain "rival" or "enemy" to get its hawkish audience all roused up.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Every week I read the "Economist" magazine in the bookstore, but I don't buy them unless it's interesting for me to keep. The Economist magazine is notorious for this one sided bias of China's economy "about to implode or fall". Every week seems like a new cause for disaster for China, anything from sex ratio, Tibet, social networks causing this new revolution, and so forth. What I found interesting is that they are 99.9% wrong and go on with something else quickly as if they didn't predict it that way, because they used the words "maybe" and "possible" a lot to cover their tracks in case the journalists are wrong. Even Newsweek magazine editor like Zakaria Fareed (whom I like to read all the time) can get it wrong when it comes to writing about the China. It's like he suddenly turned a 180 degrees and write something negative about the China and the CCP and forget about all the facts that lead it to be the second largest economy in the world.
I do that too. Actually, I've found the Economist to be probably one of the most well informed magazine on the Chinese economy. Note however that it doesn't just talk about problems with the Chinese economy, but problems with economies in every country. The key is that its criticism seems well informed and balanced, and there are usual rational caveats to them. The Economist specializes in critical coverage, so I wouldn't necessarily see it as an anti-Chinese bent. There are occasions where its coverage is even positive.

Yeah, but I like their Market and Business sections, there's always something interesting going on in the industrial sector whether it's in the US or another part of the world. I do agreed that there seems to be groupie of western journalists having to bad mouth about China or a certain "rival" or "enemy" to get its hawkish audience all roused up.
I would be perfectly fine with their coverage if it were more informative than basic China bashing. It's very rare that I find something in the WSJ that I couldn't find from another source that goes into more detail and does away with the rhetoric.
 
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zoom

Junior Member
Have you read this one?It's all a bit cloak and dagger with Africa once again drawing the short straw.

doc042.jpg


I'll post the whole article if you are interested
 
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latenlazy

Brigadier
Have you read this one?It's all a bit cloak and dagger with Africa once again drawing the short straw.

doc042.jpg
Course I have, but it's not anymore or less critical than their coverage of Latin America, or American lobbying groups, or the Russian mafia, etc. The Economist also talks about the legacy of imperialism over the developing countries, so it's hardly singling out China for anything. The fact of the matter is there are both good and bad things going on in Africa. Good news never makes news though. The press by its nature tends to more negative than positive because that's what people pay attention towards.

Anyways, less about news coverage. More about the Chinese economy.

I wanted to point this out a week ago, but I accidentally deleted my comment, so I suppose I'll share now. The real risk of a Chinese bubble isn't in the housing market exploding. Unlike the US housing bubble, China's potential bubble isn't founded on excessive mortgage loans. Because everyone is using their savings to buy property hoping to make money off the venture, a lot of liquidity is being injected into the banking system. Not only is this contributing to inflation (there are other sources in China), but because the investment returns of land assets are seen as reliable, people are likely to leverage those assets for greater loans.

The best example of this is the activity of SOEs in the realty market. SOEs are buying land because they have nowhere else to put their money (or rather, they see this as being the best way to improve their balance sheets). Using these land assets, they can either leverage loans to purchase fixed assets which are risk being unprofitable, or provide loans to other firms in order to boost their profits even further (the danger is we've seen an increase of these loans in the last couple of years, but more on that later). The former precipitates a potential loss if supply of fixed investments outstrips demand. If these fixed investments are backed by property assets, this could create problems. However, the real danger is in the latter. The latter creates a potential situation where companies who have no other way of making profit (for example because the demand for investments reach saturation) seek to make money by leveraging loans even further (Regulations could help stem this, but I still unclear what China's laws regarding these are--the lack of transparency certainly hurts). Eventually the system runs out of juice and there are no more takers for loans. Either this, or the realization of buying too much fixed investments can trigger a crisis, which takes us back to property assets.

In order to begin paying off the series of over-leveraged loans or unprofitable fixed investments, firms will need to begin selling their property for an actual amount. When prices are driven this high they will not be able to find any buyers. The ones who could buy have their own they're looking to sell, and the ones who want to buy can't afford it (and giving them loans that they could never pay back would precipitate the problem). With no takers land gets devalued, returning the price of property back to an equilibrium level, except now you have a whole bunch of firms in debt.

Unlike the US, where people took bad loans to buy their land, in China people use a big portion of their savings. This certainly prevents a crisis founded on the inability for people to pay back mortgages. However, it does not prevent the perceived value of housing assets to back other loans which are likely to default. Personally, I think the over-purchasing of fixed investments is a far more likely trigger than the exhaustive leveraging of loans. However, the fact that so much liquidity is being put into the money markets through housing is just not a good thing no matter how you spin it.
 
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zoom

Junior Member
I genuinely thought China would do good for Africa.Maybe they will and already are in some areas but i can't see that continent prosper like the others,it seems they are destined to be the whipping boys of this world.It's tragic where they're at economically here in the 21st century and all but stripped bare of their resources too.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
I genuinely thought China would do good for Africa.Maybe they will and already are in some areas but i can't see that continent prosper like the others,it seems they are destined to be the whipping boys of this world.It's tragic where they're at economically here in the 21st century and all but stripped bare of their resources too.

Any developmental strategy will have some ugly bumps on the road. The US wasn't a spitting image of human rights advocacy during its industrial revolution either. These things are going to happen in the process of state building. The more important question is whether there are checks within the system to overcome them.
 

Schumacher

Senior Member
Every week I read the "Economist" magazine in the bookstore, but I don't buy them unless it's interesting for me to keep. The Economist magazine is notorious for this one sided bias of China's economy "about to implode or fall". Every week seems like a new cause for disaster for China, anything from sex ratio, Tibet, social networks causing this new revolution, and so forth. What I found interesting is that they are 99.9% wrong and go on with something else quickly as if they didn't predict it that way, because they used the words "maybe" and "possible" a lot to cover their tracks in case the journalists are wrong. Even Newsweek magazine editor like Zakaria Fareed (whom I like to read all the time) can get it wrong when it comes to writing about the China. It's like he suddenly turned a 180 degrees and write something negative about the China and the CCP and forget about all the facts that lead it to be the second largest economy in the world.

Well, that doesn't necessarily mean western media are totally dumb although many probably are. It just means their aim is first and foremost to sell and entertain. To educate and be informative come a distant second.
They're just selling to a western audience desperate to hear doom and gloom news about other parts of the world, especially China, to help them sleep better.
Once you realize this, it's easy to understand why western media are consistently 99.9% wrong and still go on.
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
I genuinely thought China would do good for Africa.Maybe they will and already are in some areas but i can't see that continent prosper like the others,it seems they are destined to be the whipping boys of this world.It's tragic where they're at economically here in the 21st century and all but stripped bare of their resources too.

China is supplying the African states much needed infrastructure, other than that its not a hell of a lot better than the preceding colonising powers in that it places self interest first.
 

Schumacher

Senior Member
China is supplying the African states much needed infrastructure, other than that its not a hell of a lot better than the preceding colonising powers in that it places self interest first.

There are many ways to protect your self interests, western colonial powers did so by killing Africans in wars and colonization, and traded slaves. That's a hell lot worse.
 
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