Chinese Economics Thread

[Xizor]

That’s true. The EU needs China. China needs the EU. But any deal or agreement must be win-win and fair.

Short term, it's certainly win-lose.

But is it really a win-lose on the same terms as of US trade war and ZTE coercion?

EU hasn't engaged in a formal trade war with China. Rather than looking at whether it can or not, one must ensure that EU is incentivised to not think about a trade war.


There is no need for such rabid antagonism of EU when there are bigger targets (US, Australia).

 

[Temstar]

The Warring States Annals, or The Chronicles of the Warring States, it was a history book.

The topic was, you guessed it, the Warring States period.

That is how we know about the Warring States period, because of this history book.

But this is not just a history book. We have to remember that back in those days, books like this were written by the best minds there were among Chinese people.

This is a book of literature too. This was a book of short stories, very short indeed. These stories got right to the point, good literary style, and a lesson in there somewhere.

So when someone says this is straight out of the Warring States period, that means this is a story straight out of that book.

And that book was full of stories of political events, moral codes, intrigue, plots, and brutality. It was a great work!

Now for the specific story regarding the predicament that Australia finds itself in today, which was brought up by the poster who originally mention it, got to ask them which story was they thinking about from the Zhan Guo Ce. I don't remember, all I remember was a couple of stories. Not even sure if it was from there or some other ancient book, lol.

Specifically, in the late stages of Warring State one of the seven states, Qin emerged to be the dominant power and it seemed ready and capable of conquering the other six states and unify China. The strategy of the six smaller states became overwhelmingly shifter to counter Qin. People begin to call for a "vertical alliance" between the six states to present an unified front against Qin, but Qin was able to counter this by sending out lobbyists to each state to call for "horizontal alliances" where each state would ally instead with Qin and take part in their ascendency at the expanse of the rest. Qin was then able to repeatedly exploit distrust between the six states and conquer them one by one.

There were lots of thinkers during this period and they spent their lives writing down what happened, what worked and what didn't for the benefit of their descendants. Art of War for example was written in this period based on all the battlefield experiences of the time.

Thus translating that to today you can see the US calling for Asia NATO or Quad or 5 Eyes to encircle China as examples of vertical alliances, while RCEP and this new investment deal are examples of horizontal alliances by China to counter.

You will sometimes see Chinese say their long history gives them a big advantage on the political stage and this is what they mean. Many issues of statecraft actually have known solutions in Chinese history and one only has to translate the solution to the age they live in.

 

[jshw31]

Specifically, in the late stages of Warring State one of the seven states, Qin emerged to be the dominant power and it seemed ready and capable of conquering the other six states and unify China. The strategy of the six smaller states became overwhelmingly shifter to counter Qin. People begin to call for a "vertical alliance" between the six states to present an unified front against Qin, but Qin was able to counter this by sending out lobbyists to each state to call for "horizontal alliances" where each state would ally instead with Qin and take part in their ascendency at the expanse of the rest. Qin was then able to repeatedly exploit distrust between the six states and conquer them one by one.

There were lots of thinkers during this period and they spent their lives writing down what happened, what worked and what didn't for the benefit of their descendants. Art of War for example was written in this period based on all the battlefield experiences of the time.

Thus translating that to today you can see the US calling for Asia NATO or Quad or 5 Eyes to encircle China as examples of vertical alliances, while RCEP and this new investment deal are examples of horizontal alliances by China to counter.

You will sometimes see Chinese say their long history gives them a big advantage on the political stage and this is what they mean. Many issues of statecraft actually have known solutions in Chinese history and one only has to translate the solution to the age they live in.

In this example the US is actually closer to being Qin and China being one of the states. Fortunately for China the US has shown incompetence in successful statecraft by destroying their credibility and India's incompetence at being a useful ally really limits their options.

 

[Appix]

I have huge doubts about China giving so much markets access concessions to the EU. You boast their arrogance and it's now virtually inevitable that they will gang up to extract more in the future. They have seen blood. They should think deep and good in Zhongnanhai and not start signing unequal treaties and repeating Late Qing and Yuan Shikai mistakes.

 

[daifo]

On the bright side, EU companies going into China will likely have office/mfg in China thereby hire locally and also buy from local suppliers. Some tech will be passed onto the local markets just to build a supply chain. Any new "market" created will also spur the locals to be creative and build new companies to compete too.

 

[Temstar]

I have huge doubts about China giving so much markets access concessions to the EU. You boast their arrogance and it's now virtually inevitable that they will gang up to extract more in the future. They have seen blood. They should think deep and good in Zhongnanhai and not start signing unequal treaties and repeating Late Qing and Yuan Shikai mistakes.

Think about it this way, is US really upset about this? Looking at the news today it sure seems that way. That's how you know it's the right call to make.

When China joined WTO lots of people were apprehensive too, yet it turned out to be an extremely correct decision.

 

[horse]

Think about it this way, is US really upset about this? Looking at the news today it sure seems that way. That's how you know it's the right call to make.

When China joined WTO lots of people were apprehensive too, yet it turned out to be an extremely correct decision.

Yup, agreed.

Usually it is only the victim who is screaming.

Only one voice(s) screaming today.

 

[hashtagpls]

Has China run out of electricity yet since they're not buying Australian coal like the media reported? I was arguing with a guy on the internet where now they claim the media never reported that. Yes if that were true the big news that they would report would be China's economy has ground to a halt because of no electricity. Do we hear that? All of the sudden simple common sense is inserted and they're in full denial they ever said China is experiencing electricity shortages because they forgot that would happen when they ban Australian coal. It never amazes me how many dumb people are out there that think they're smart and are in influential positions.

The same people who think China is dependant on australian metallurgic coal for power supplies are the same people who believe the 3 gorges dam broke and flooded and that china needs to import indian rice to survive.

And also,

Rebuttal for those who say that China gave up heaps for the status quo with Europe:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1344378262923870208

This deal allows for Chinese investment into european companies, companies i presume like ASML or airbus.

And given the copious amounts of Copium being inhaled by the atlanticist press, i can only presume this REEEing is a Good Thing for China.

 

[Petrolicious88]

Think about it this way, is US really upset about this? Looking at the news today it sure seems that way. That's how you know it's the right call to make.

When China joined WTO lots of people were apprehensive too, yet it turned out to be an extremely correct decision.

Then again, US could be coordinating with the EU to forcibly open Chinese markets. Instead of gunboats, we now have sanctions, and tech ban.

but I also agree that the EU needs China more than ever. And EU investments in China is broadly good for China as well.

 

[Equation]

Then again, US could be coordinating with the EU to forcibly open Chinese markets. Instead of gunboats, we now have sanctions, and tech ban.

Yeah but tech bans and sanctions can only go so far against large market country like China. Remember China can easily return the favor.