Chinese Economics Thread

Martian

Senior Member
China has 6 of the world's 10 largest (busiest) container ports for 2009

1 Singapore

2 Shanghai (People's Republic of China)

3 Hong Kong (People's Republic of China)

4 Shenzhen (People's Republic of China)

- Los Angeles/Long Beach Harbor[7] (United States of America)

5 Busan (South Korea)

6 Guangzhou (People's Republic of China)

7 Dubai (United Arab Emirates)

8 Ningbo (People's Republic of China)

9 Qingdao (People's Republic of China)

10 Rotterdam (Netherlands)

11 Tianjin (People's Republic of China)

12 Kaohsiung (Republic of China)

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Click on the hotlink at: "Busiest Container Ports
For more details on this topic, see List of world's busiest container ports."

[Note: For 2010, Shanghai has surpassed Singapore as the world's busiest port.]

chinaportofshanghai6l.jpg

The world's busiest port in 2010 is Port of Shanghai
 
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Martian

Senior Member
U.S. and China in tit-for-tat tariffs

In 2007, the U.S. had a 13.9% share of China's trade. By 2008, the U.S. share had fallen to 12.9%. When I discover it, I expect the data for 2009 to follow the trend of a declining American share (and importance) in China's trade.

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chinatoptentradepartner.jpg

China's top ten trade partners for Jan.-Oct. 2008

What is the impact from declining American share of China's trade?

It means that China has less at risk and she is more likely to engage in tit-for-tat economic retaliation against American protectionism.

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"US Tire Tariffs: Will China Retaliate?
Friday, September 11, 2009

The US tonight imposed steep tariffs on tires, a move directed against Chinese imports.
...
And it is hard to know what the Chinese will do. On the one hand, China is clearly wedded to mercantilist trade policies and it is hard to see them making serious changes when their economy is flagging. So they could see this as a frontal challenge at a time not of their choosing. The rhetoric from the Chinese, at least as reported in China Daily, says the Chinese regard this move as an affront, but the Chinese so frequently go into high dudgeon mode, it is hard to tell when they are merely posturing and when they are quite serious:

Experts have called the proposal “unreasonable and unfair” and said that Chinese tire manufactures “largely do not compete against their American counterparts in the US.

Chinese tires have been “targeting the budget and no-brand replacement tire market for US consumers with severe budget constraints,” a sector that the US tire makers gave up long ago and are unwilling to enter again, said China Chamber of Commerce of Metals, Minerals & Chemicals Importers & Exporters in a letter to President Obama….

But the Chinese government will not turn away from issues that will harm the interests of Chinese industries. Officials from the Bureau of Fair Trade for Imports & Exports with the Ministry of Commerce said China has prepared an assortment of plans for countering different possible results from the Obama administration.

“We will surely protect local tire manufacturers from being hurt when needed,” they said.

China will likely take retaliatory measures against the US industries. The Tire Industry Association has petitioned China to launch restrictive measures.

Moreover, experts suggested the Chinese government clamp down on US auto imports. During the first half, China imported more than $1 billion worth of automobiles from the US, up by 9.1 percent year-on-year.

“It’s unfair for Chinese laborers, after we made the American automakers happy, if the US launches sanctions against Chinese tire imports,” said He Weiwen, a council member of the China Society for American Economy Studies.

Stay tuned. This could get interesting in a bad way."

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"China Imposes a Steep Tariff on U.S. Poultry
By KEITH BRADSHER
Published: September 26, 2010

HONG KONG — Days after it flexed its economic muscle in a diplomatic dispute with Japan, China continued to display a more assertive international economic policy on Sunday as it imposed steep tariffs on poultry imports from the United States.

China’s commerce ministry announced on its Web site that it would impose import tariffs on American poultry of up to 105.4 percent. It said the tariffs reflected the result of its own antidumping investigation, which looked at whether the United States was harming China’s poultry industry by exporting chicken parts for less than it cost to produce them.

The commerce ministry started the investigation less than two days after President Obama imposed steep tariffs on Chinese tires a year ago. Chinese officials have denied that the inquiry was in retaliation, but poultry is one of the few categories in which the United States runs a trade surplus with China, making it an ideal target for Chinese trade actions.

The tariffs are another example of China’s willingness to use its economic leverage when it feels it is being challenged. An official at one of Japan’s top traders in rare earth minerals said on Monday that there appeared to be no resumption in shipments to Japan, a result of a still-simmering dispute over Japan’s arrest of a Chinese fishing boat captain. The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said traders were watching closely to see whether Chinese customs would start letting shipments through again. “China’s rising assertiveness on the international economic stage reflects its growing economic might and the self-confidence of its leadership, but is tempered by the realization that it faces many challenges in terms of its own development,” said Eswar S. Prasad, an economics professor at Cornell.

Carol J. Guthrie, a spokeswoman for the United States trade representative, said, “We are disappointed that duties are to be imposed and will be examining the determination for consistency with applicable rules.”

Quarrels over products as diverse as chickens and rare earth minerals might seem like minor spats. But they come against the backdrop of China’s vigorous defense of its currency policy, and its stepped-up activity in the World Trade Organization.

China broke the peg of its currency, the renminbi, to the dollar in June but has permitted it to appreciate less than 2 percent against the dollar since then. In recent weeks, Chinese state media have criticized the United States for pressuring China to reduce its intervention in currency markets and allow the renminbi to rise against the dollar.

China has also begun filing its own W.T.O. cases to challenge other countries’ policies in the last three years, which it did not do for nearly six years after it joined the multilateral group in 2001. These include the cases against the tire tariffs and European Union over antidumping measures against Chinese footwear. The W.T. O. has extensive rules on antidumping tariffs. China has used those rules to challenge other countries’ penalties.

Some experts on Chinese economic policy say Beijing is still committed to cooperative relations with trading partners.

“They don’t want to be perceived as the guy flexing his muscles, because they are so interdependent with the outside world, especially with Japan and the United States,” said Jiang Wenran, a specialist in Chinese natural resources policy and China-Japan relations at the University of Alberta in Canada.

But Beijing officials face intensifying internal pressure to stand up for China’s perceived national interests.

“China feels increasingly under siege as it becomes an international economic power, as others try to contain it,” Mr. Jiang said. “They don’t want to appear to be weak, because domestic pressure is mounting.”

China is an important market for American poultry, particularly for portions like chicken feet, which are a delicacy in China but barely marketable in the United States, said Gary Blumenthal, the chief executive of World Perspectives, an agriculture trade consulting firm in Washington.

American farmers and the Obama administration are likely to be particularly disappointed by the new poultry tariffs because China’s increasing affluence has resulted in a surging appetite for protein, one that American chicken farms hoped to satisfy. “China is viewed as a potentially hugely growing market for poultry,” Mr. Blumenthal said.

The United States exports about $4 billion a year of chicken products, of which $678.2 million went to China last year, according to Global Trade Information Services in Columbia, S.C.

China’s dispute with Japan over rare earth minerals continues to be murky, especially because the commerce agency has denied shipments were halted.

Chen Deming, China’s commerce minister, said in an interview with Chinese television on Sunday that the government had complied with World Trade Organization rules by not ordering a ban on rare earth exports. But he seemed to hint that a halt on exports might have occurred anyway when he said that, “I believe entrepreneurs, they will have their own feelings, and will do their own thing.”

There are 32 companies with rare earth export licenses in China, including 10 foreign firms. Mr. Chen was not asked why foreign companies would have felt a need to stop shipments.

Rare earths are important for automotive, electronics and clean energy industries. China mines 93 percent of the world’s tonnage of rare earths.

Hiroko Tabuchi contributed reporting from Tokyo."
 

Martian

Senior Member
China-Arab Bilateral Trade Hits US $51.9 Billion In First-half of 2010

chinachinesevicepremier.jpg

Chinese Vice Premier Hui Liangyu delivers the address for the opening ceremony of 2010 China (Ningxia) International Investment and Trade Fair and the First China-Arab States Economic and Trade Forum in Yinchuan, capital of northwest China's Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region, on Sept. 26, 2010. (Xinhua/Liu Quanlong)

chinachinesevicepremier.jpg

Chinese Vice Premier Hui Liangyu (2nd R) attends the opening ceremony of 2010 China (Ningxia) International Investment and Trade Fair and the First China-Arab States Economic and Trade Forum in Yinchuan, capital of northwest China's Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region, on Sept. 26, 2010. (Xinhua/Liu Quanlong)

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Three participants walk at the opening ceremony of 2010 China (Ningxia) International Investment and Trade Fair and the First China-Arab States Economic and Trade Forum in Yinchuan, capital of northwest China's Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region, on Sept. 26, 2010. Participants from over 60 countries, regions, and international organizations attended the forum that kicked off here on Sunday. (Xinhua/Liu Quanlong)

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"China-Arab Bilateral Trade Hits US $51.9 Billion In First-half
September 27, 2010 12:40 PM

YINCHUAN, Sept 27 (Bernama) -- Bilateral trade between China and the Arab States hit a historical high of US $51.9 billion in the first-half of the year, up 52 per cent over the same period last year, said Chinese Vice Premier Hui Liangyu.

Two-way trade grew rapidly since both countries recovered from the global financial crisis in the second-half of last year and this helped bilateral trade reach US $107.4 billion in 2009, which was six folds better than 2000.

Hui said this in his address at the First China-Arab States Economic and Trade Forum which opened here yesterday.

More than 800 foreign guests, mainly senior government officials, diplomats from 66 countries and representatives from chambers of commerce attended the five-day forum jointly organised by the People's Government of Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region, China Ministry of Commerce and China Council for the Promotion of International Trade.

Ningxia, home to at least 10 per cent of China's 20 million Muslims, will host this forum annually to expand trade and economic cooperation with Arab States and other Muslim countries.

Chinese Vice Premier Hui Liangyu said cooperation between China and the Arab states have great potential and a bright future.

He said, as of end-June, China's direct investment in Arab States reached US $3.78 billion and the field of investment had widened from resource exploring, food and textile to those including leather manufacturing, automobile assembly and petrochemicals.

In the same period, investment from the Arab states to China stood at US $2.15 billion, covering petrochemicals, food, real estate and light industries sectors.

He also said China's construction sectors had not only taken up more projects in Arab countries but also provided more interest-free and preferential loans to Arab countries for infrastructure construction.

In the second-quarter of this year, China offered US $116 million in interest-free and preferential loans to Arab countries.

Meanwhile, Minister of Commerce Chen Deming said China and Arab States should strengthen efforts to promote trade if both countries want bilateral trade to exceed US $200 billion in the next three to five years.

He said both sides should make efforts to strengthen two-way cooperation, encourage Chinese companies to invest and undertake more projects in Arab States and welcome Arab companies to invest in China."
 
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Martian

Senior Member
China's GDP will be $10 trillion dollars in 2015

1) Technically, I think China did not pass Japan in nominal GDP last year because the standard practice is to use the average currency conversion rate for the year or 2009 (e.g. 6.83 Yuan to 1 U.S. dollar). See
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2) It will be interesting to see the new GDP projections for China by both the IMF and Goldman Sachs. The IMF-projected GDP for China is lacking by about $1/2 trillion dollars. The Goldman Sachs' projections are about $1 trillion dollars short for 2010 China. See
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3) China will catch up faster to U.S. GDP than most people expected. China's economic growth rate is roughly 8 to 10% per year. In contrast, U.S. growth rate is approximately 2 to 3%. In addition, China's currency appreciation gives China's nominal GDP an additional boost. America had better keep an eye on the rear-view mirror. China is closing in fast.

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The IMF (i.e. International Monetary Fund) is like the weatherman. Short-term predictions are fairly accurate. However, predictions for the long-term tend to be unreliable.

Five years is a short time for economic forecasting. I've checked prior 5-year predictions by the IMF and they're usually fairly close to the actual GDP. The IMF GDP numbers for China are understated by 1/2 trillion U.S. dollars because China has revised her GDP numbers (e.g. see original post). The IMF predicts that China's GDP in 2015 is $9.44 trillion dollars. We add in an extra 1/2 trillion dollars from the revised statistics.

Some of you will do the math and say: $9.44 trillion + $0.5 trillion = $9.94 trillion; that's not quite $10 trillion dollars. Technically true, but you forgot the interest income from China's forex reserves and remittances from overseas.

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China's GDP in 2015 will be $10 trillion dollars.

I guarantee it!
 

zoom

Junior Member
China's GDP in 2015 will be $10 trillion dollars.

I guarantee it!

Be careful Martian.No human being can guarantee anything of the sort.Something can happen in the next few minutes that you had no idea about and that is the fundamental flaw in forecasting.They are nothing more than guesses.You are starting to believe your own hype.They are (probably) millions of blogs/vlogs online that predict where interest rates/housing values/inflation/GDP Etc.etc.etc. are going to be at in the future but at the end of the day nobody can predict anything for sure.We don't possess that ability.
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
If China is doing so well, then why is she continuing to take aid money, from the UK Germany USA Japan and being a big borrower from the World Bank (1.5 billion last year?)IMO.By doing so shes denying the money to other countries who have greater needs, and dont have 2.5trillion in reserves.
 
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Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
If China is doing so well, then why is she continuing to take aid money, from the UK Germany USA Japan and being a big borrower from the World Bank (1.5 billion last year?)IMO.By doing so shes denying the money to other countries who have greater needs, and dont have 2.5trillion in reserves.

Because World bank is a BANK and not charity They expect to get paid eventually . Plus China use the loan effectively in eradicating poverty unlike some of those developing country where the loan leak to god know where. Plus whatever program started in China will become template for the rest of the world !

China is developed country and developing country at the same time . Plus most of the loan stipulate that they have inside track on supplying the service and product Yes there is no such thing as free lunch. Most of those loan is nothing but industrial promotion subsidy.

And China has a good track record of paying back!
 
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bladerunner

Banned Idiot
Because World bank is a BANK and not charity They expect to get paid eventually . Plus China use the loan effectively in eradicating poverty unlike some of those developing country where the loan leak to god know where. Plus whatever program started in China will become template for the rest of the world !

China is developed country and developing country at the same time . Plus most of the loan stipulate that they have inside track on supplying the service and product Yes there is no such thing as free lunch. Most of those loan is nothing but indutrial promotion subsidy.

And China has a good track of paying back!

So the World Bank should only be there for Chinas use?

Whether those other 3rd world countries use the aid money as effectively as China is besides the point.My point is with 2.5trillion in the bank, she hardly needs it.

Aid to countries should have a cut off point in much the same way an individual is entitled to receive aid from the state. How far will Bill Gates or Warren Buffet get if they applied for food stamps in the U.S.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
So the World Bank should only be there for Chinas use?

I agree that China should ease off the foreign "aid", but Hendrik didn't say that the world bank existed for China.

I feel that if China can take loans and pay it back, then why not?

Whether those other 3rd world countries use the aid money as effectively as China is besides the point.My point is with 2.5trillion in the bank, she hardly needs it.

Maybe China doesn't want to give up the 2.5 trillion. :p

Aid to countries should have a cut off point in much the same way an individual is entitled to receive aid from the state. How far will Bill Gates or Warren Buffet get if they applied for food stamps in the U.S.

China should let third world countries take a larger slice of the pie, espicially ones unable to fend for themselves like China can.
But you wouldn't expect them to do that; when there's an advantage to be had then you would usually take it.

To be fair though China's also giving aid to quite a few African countries. I expect China will eventually stop receiving aid money through their own decision or otherwise.

If China is doing so well, then why is she continuing to take aid money, from the UK Germany USA Japan and being a big borrower from the World Bank (1.5 billion last year?)IMO.By doing so shes denying the money to other countries who have greater needs, and dont have 2.5trillion in reserves.

Because China is doing very well, but many problems still remain. I suppose they're going to leech the system for a while, but given everything in the past few centuries I think that's not unfair.

All these proclamations of China doing this well, china doing that well, china becoming world's second largest economy, etc are all just small nationalistic "yay look at us, we don't suck anymore" -- we do realize problems remain, and I think that reflects the government's thinking as well. You didn't see them proclaimining "yar we are the world's second largest economy now -- japan, suck it!" last month. They know the title is superficial when a good portion of the country still lives in arguable conditions.
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
I feel that if China can take loans and pay it back, then why not?

Maybe China doesn't want to give up the 2.5 trillion. :p

To be fair though China's also giving aid to quite a few African countries.

Because China is doing very well, but many problems still remain. I suppose they're going to leech the system for a while, but given everything in the past few centuries I think that's not unfair.

Actually very cunning of China to take the aid from the World Bank and then in turn giving aid to countries that are in need, as well as reminding them that its the genorisity of the PRC, and perhaps one day the recipient may return a political favour.

Recently I read an article (I cant remember where) that the Australians were very concerned that China could influence where the next Commonwealth games took place.

Queensland (Australia) is vying to host them along with some small city in Southern Sri Lanka whose name Ive forgotten. To come to the point the Aussies have realized that Peking who is backing this small town in Sri Lanka can influence the vote, by simply calling in the iou's from all those commonwealth countries around the world it has gained a financial influence in.

How ironic when a non Commonwealth country can actually influence what exactly happens
 
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