Chinese Economics Thread

solarz

Brigadier
Re: Chinese Work Ethic Scares Germans

This remarkable vignette captures, on many levels, how the game has changed. Comfortable workers in the factories and mills of America and Western Europe have no idea what they are up against.

This is very true, but one should be wary of over-glorifying this aspect. The Chinese (and other developing nation workers) work hard because they had a hard life growing up, because working hard is the only way they can keep up in an ultra-competitive society like China.

However, all this does come with a very real price in health, psychological well-being, and social debt (as families are forced to live apart because a parent goes to work overseas for months at a time, or when parents work such long hours that they barely have time for their child).

As the Chinese grow more prosperous, there will be less and less people willing to work long hours for low pay. That's the transition from a developing nation to a developed nation. Let's not forget that these people are working hard so that their children won't have to.
 

Spartan95

Junior Member
"In Indonesia and other parts of Southeast Asia, ethnic Chinese businessmen have long been viewed with suspicion and are often targeted in times of turmoil. "


This is a ill-intent and ridiculous statement. :mad: To be suspicious of something means something fishy or illegal is going on. This is simply not true. Ask the natives, not-so-natives (historically earlier immigrants) their opinion of this and the stupid reporter will probably get a curious look since they themselves are the customers, sales people and sometimes the owner themselves. The majority of the ethnic Chinese in south east asian countries are born there, and are no different from the ethnic Chinese in western countries in the way they do business and make a living, other than having some differences in their culture.

Actually, historical facts prove that ethnic Chinese have been targeted in times of turmoil in Southeast Asia.

Check out the racial riots in Malaysia and Indonesia, how it started and who were targeted and you will know. The most recent one being in the mid-90s in Indonesia which led to an exodus of ethnic Chinese (and their money) to other places (Singapore being 1 such destination).

As for the "viewed with suspicision" part, that is subjective. But not surprising either as the ethnic Chinese tends to be disproportionately well-off, often owning large companies that form an important aspect in the ctounry's economy.

In Indonesia, the ethnic Chinese take on Indonesian names to "blend in". Their Chinese names are seldom used (if at all). I have a few Indonesian Chinese friends who go by Indonesian names.
 

Quickie

Colonel
Actually, historical facts prove that ethnic Chinese have been targeted in times of turmoil in Southeast Asia.

Check out the racial riots in Malaysia and Indonesia, how it started and who were targeted and you will know. The most recent one being in the mid-90s in Indonesia which led to an exodus of ethnic Chinese (and their money) to other places (Singapore being 1 such destination).

As for the "viewed with suspicision" part, that is subjective. But not surprising either as the ethnic Chinese tends to be disproportionately well-off, often owning large companies that form an important aspect in the ctounry's economy.

In Indonesia, the ethnic Chinese take on Indonesian names to "blend in". Their Chinese names are seldom used (if at all). I have a few Indonesian Chinese friends who go by Indonesian names.


I was trying to make the point that I don't agree with how the particular sentence was phrased. You view someone with suspicion because you believe he or she may be up to something bad. What's the ulterior motives of the source of the news to even suggest that the Chinese in the region are a subject of suspicion to the other communities? Just like the other communities in the region, they, too, (or shall I say "we, too") are rightful law-abiding citizens.
 

Spartan95

Junior Member
I was trying to make the point that I don't agree with how the particular sentence was phrased. You view someone with suspicion because you believe he or she may be up to something bad. What's the ulterior motives of the source of the news to even suggest that the Chinese in the region are a subject of suspicion to the other communities? Just like the other communities in the region, they, too, (or shall I say "we, too") are rightful law-abiding citizens.

Like I said, that "viewed with suspicion" portion is subjective.

Perhaps the journalist spoke with people who are of that view?

Being rightful, law-abiding citizens does not mean that the entire community is monolithic. There is an entire spectrum of views/opinions amongst the people within the community.

More importantly, being rightful law-abiding citizen didn't save the Chinese community in Jakarta from being the victim of heinous acts in the mid-90s did they? So why were the Chinese targeted and not other communities?

Xenophobia also happens to be rather pronounced in certain communities (such as Malaysia's Sultan labelling Chinese as squatters in public statements). Doesn't exactly sound like they are being viewed as equals isn't it?
 

Quickie

Colonel
Like I said, that "viewed with suspicion" portion is subjective.

Perhaps the journalist spoke with people who are of that view?

Being rightful, law-abiding citizens does not mean that the entire community is monolithic. There is an entire spectrum of views/opinions amongst the people within the community.

More importantly, being rightful law-abiding citizen didn't save the Chinese community in Jakarta from being the victim of heinous acts in the mid-90s did they? So why were the Chinese targeted and not other communities?

Xenophobia also happens to be rather pronounced in certain communities (such as Malaysia's Sultan labelling Chinese as squatters in public statements). Doesn't exactly sound like they are being viewed as equals isn't it?

That's not actually my argument. On your last point, the fact is the main complaint of the Chinese communities and even the Indian communities and some smaller groups there, are that they are not treated as equal, what's more with the affirmative government policies that benefit only the "natives" and indigenous people, sometimes at the expense of them (i.e. ethnic Chinese, Indian and others) having to work so much harder in the things they do, be it entering into public universities, getting scholarships, doing business with government related companies, buying houses at more expensive prices etc.

Got to stop here as we're getting into politics territory which is not allowed here.
 
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Martian

Senior Member
Taiwan is world's most innovative country on a per capita basis

A retired American inventor, "TruthSeeker," had normalized the patents granted by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (i.e USPTO) on a per capita basis for the top ten largest recipients of U.S. patents for 2008.

"Patents granted by the United States for the year 2008. If you normalize by the populations of each country, you get the following in terms of number of people per each issued patent:

1. Taiwan -->2,957 people/patent
2. U.S. --> 3,348
3. Japan --> 3,490
4. South Korea --> 5,498
5. Germany -->8,130
6. Canada -->8,242
7. U.K. -->16,133
8. France --> 17,046
9. Italy --> 31,315
10. China -->712,380"

From one of my previous posts:

"China continues to climb the ranks of countries that receive the most patents in the United States.

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Patents granted by the United States for the year 2008.

1. U.S. 92,000 patents
2. Japan 36,679
3. Germany 10,086
4. South Korea 8,731
5. Taiwan 7,779
6. Canada 4,125
7. U.K. 3,843
8. France 3,813
9. Italy 1,916
10. China 1,874
...
Hong Kong 717 (Patent office counts Hong Kong as a separate entity)
India 672
Singapore 450
Russian Federation 181
Brazil 133"
 
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Martian

Senior Member
China to build a high-speed railway between Mecca and Medina

Thank You for everyone's responses to my queries. Seems like the airplanes still dominant when it comes to speed but at a higher price, HS trains on the other hand provides more environmentally friendly services.

Also heard China is proposing to other countries to provide HSR to connect all the way from China to Europe, what are the current progress? Any countries accepted it yet?

Thanks again

To connect China to Europe, the HSR will have to pass through Central Asian and Mideastern countries. This is a long-term project, because the Central Asian countries probably can't afford HSR. Some sort of financing or loan for pass-through-tariff (of transporting goods through their country) deal will have to be negotiated.

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"China to build a high-speed railway between Mecca and Medina

* Author: MR
* Filed under: China, Islam, Saudi Arabia
* Date: Feb 11,2009 | 04:05 PM

China to build Mecca rail system

China has signed an agreement with Saudi Arabia to build a new railway system linking the main sites of the annual Muslim pilgrimage, the Hajj.

The new railway will connect the city of Mecca with the pilgrim destinations of Mina, Arafat and Muzdalifah.

Saudi Arabia also plans to build a high-speed rail link to take pilgrims from Mecca to Medina, Islam’s two holiest cities, in 30 minutes.

The journey time by road can take anywhere between four and five hours.

Millions of Islamic faithful descend on Mecca during the annual mass pilgrimage.

The new network in Saudi Arabia is expected to be ready within three years, with one section of the line due to be completed in time for the 2010 Hajj, officials said.

The contract, worth almost $1.8bn (£1.24bn), was awarded to the China Railway Company and a French firm.

The project was announced during a three-day visit by the Chinese President, Hu Jintao, to Saudi Arabia.

China is becoming a key contractor on infrastructure projects in the oil-rich kingdom.

Source via Ismaeel"

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"System, Saudi Railway Organization. Status, Phase I under construction. Termini, Medina Mecca. Stations, 5. Daily ridership, 38000 ..."

"Construction
Phase I

The 6·79 billion riyal (US$ 1.8 billion)) design and construction contract for Phase I Package 1 – Civil Works for the project was awarded in March 2009 to Al Rajhi Alliance.[2] which comprises China Railway Construction Corporation (CRCC), Al Arrab Contracting Company Ltd, Al Suwailem Company and the French electricity generating and high-speed rail company Alstom Transport. It is cooperating with the consultant Office of Union Engineering Company (K&A). Scott Wilson Group will provide project management support.[8] [9]"
 

Martian

Senior Member
Modern "Silk Road"

Here is the sequence of steps to realizing a China-Central Asia-Mideast-Europe HSR. Firstly, build affordable normal rail to connect all of those countries and regions. Secondly, collect passenger fares and goods-transport fees. Use profits from normal rail line and external financing to build High-Speed Rail (i.e. HSR) from China to Europe.

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"China to build $2bn railway for Iran
China is poised to sign a $2bn (£1.3bn) deal to build a railway line in Iran in the first step of a wider plan to tie the Middle East and Central Asia to Beijing.

By Malcolm Moore in Shanghai
Published: 6:15AM BST 07 Sep 2010

chinatrains1709759c.jpg

The Chinese have already built a railway line serving Tibet, above, and now plan a modern variant on the old 'Silk Road' through Central Asia (Photo: AP)

China's railways minister, Liu Zhijun, is expected to visit Tehran this week to seal the deal, according to his Iranian counterpart, Hamid Behbahani.

"The final document of the contract has already been signed with a Chinese company and the Chinese minister will visit Iran on September 12 to ink the agreement," said Mr Behbahani.

The new line will run from Tehran to the town of Khosravi on the border with Iraq, around 360 miles as the crow flies, passing through Arak, Hamedan and Kermanshah.

Eventually, the Iranian government said, the route could link Iran with Iraq and even Syria as part of a Middle-Eastern corridor. That could also benefit the 5,000 Iranians who make pilgrimages each day to the holy cities of Najaf and Karbala in Iraq.

Nicklas Swanstrom, the executive director of the Central Asia-Caucasus Institute at Johns Hopkins University, said the contract to build the line was the first step for China to build an entire rail infrastructure for central Asia.

"It makes sense that if you build railways in Iran, you then get deals to stretch the lines into central Asia," he said, referring to a "very concrete plan" to run a railway from Iran through the landlocked countries of Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, and eventually to Kashgar in China, in a modern "silk route".

That line would give the central Asian states vital access to Iran's port of Chahbahar on the shores of the Persian Gulf, and could also eventually give China a vital overland freight route to Europe.

"For China, it could cut the cost of transporting goods to Europe by 5pc or 6pc," said Professor Swanstrom.

"It also makes political sense, because while technically the US, Europe or Russia could block China's sea routes, it would also have a land route. And by tying your neighbour's infrastructure to you, it brings them closer," he added. "It decreases Russia's influence in the region, and definitely decreases the influence of the US and Europe."

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president, raised the idea of the new railway earlier this year at a summit in Tehran.

Transport ministers from Tajikistan, Afghanistan and Iran are expected to gather in Dushanbe, the Tajik capital formerly known as Stalinabad, next month to firm up a deal for a 1,225-mile route. The Asian Development Bank is funding a feasibility study for the project.

Iran is determined to forge tighter links with its neighbours, and rebuild itself as a trade hub, in order to build a regional alliance that would support it against Nato countries.

At the beginning of last month, Mr Ahmadinejad said Tajikistan, Afghanistan and Iran should join forces to become "an obstacle" to Western influence in the region.

Iran has pointedly not signed up to European Union plans for a trade corridor through Europe, the Caucasus and Asia, and has instead busied itself with bilateral agreements with its neighbours. Reza Rahimi, the Iranian vice-president, has promised to cut freight times between Europe and China from two months by sea to 11 days by land.

In addition, the current sanctions on Iran allow China, which relies on the Persian state for 15pc of its energy needs, to drive a hard bargain on the construction contract for the line.

China is rapidly expanding its own high-speed rail network and has unveiled plans for lines that will connect Beijing with London, both through Russia and through central Asia.

China Railway Group, the largest railway construction company, has also recently revealed it has had "early stage contact" with South African companies about undertaking rail projects in South Africa."

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"China, Iran ink major railroad deal
Published September 13th, 2010 - 12:40 GMT

China signed and Iran on Sunday signed an agreement to extend the railway line in western Iran as part of China's plans to link its railway system to the Mediterranean Sea at a cost of US$2 billion. The line will go from Tehran to the town of Khosravi on the border with Iraq. It will pass through the Iranian cities of Arak, Hamedan and Kermanshah.

The Iranian government agreed to the project, believing it will reach Iraq and Syria and possibly Lebanon as part of a Middle Eastern Corridor.

This new railroad line will help the Central Asian States to have an access to the Iranian port of Chahbahar and will provide China a vital overland route to transport goods to Europe. The Chinese expect it will help reduce the cost of transporting goods to Europe by 5 or 6%."
 
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Martian

Senior Member
China to Expand Cross-Border Yuan Settlement Regions

Remember that you read it here first. I have watched China take methodical steps to increase the use of the Yuan in international trade. In fifteen year's time, China's Yuan will become the world's third reserve currency after the U.S. dollar and Euro.

sbankofchina0010dc53fa0.jpg

The People's Bank of China in Beijing. China's central bank.

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"China to Expand Cross-Border Yuan Settlement Regions
September 17, 2010, 12:54 AM EDT

By Bloomberg News

Sept. 17 (Bloomberg) -- China will allow more regions and companies to settle cross-border trade in the yuan and boost offshore usage of the currency, the central bank said today.

The government will push for further opening of its financial markets to increase channels for overseas investors to obtain and use the Chinese currency, the People’s Bank of China said in a report. It will also look at setting up exchange-rate mechanisms between the yuan and some “minor” currencies on China’s interbank market, the report said.

Since 1993, China’s central bank has signed agreements with Vietnam, Mongolia, Russia, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, North Korea, Nepal and Kazakhstan about using local currencies in bilateral trade, according to the report. The PBOC has also permitted six local lenders to finance overseas projects in yuan since November, it said.

China, which is seeking to reduce reliance on the U.S. dollar in trade and investment, started to allow businesses to use yuan in cross-border trade in July 2009. In the past two months, China has started yuan spot trading versus Malaysia’s ringgit, allowed offshore trading of the currency in Hong Kong and announced the opening of its bond market to foreign banks.

Cross-border trade using China’s currency more than doubled to 48.7 billion yuan ($7.2 billion) in the second quarter from the first, according to central bank data. The monetary authority expanded the cross-border program to 18 more provinces and cities in June, almost one year after introducing it in five cities.

The yuan climbed 0.6 percent this week to 6.7272 per dollar as of 12:30 p.m. in Shanghai, according to the China Foreign Exchange Trade System. That’s the biggest weekly gain since May 2008.

--Belinda Cao. Editor: Andrew Janes, Simon Harvey

To contact the reporter on this story: Belinda Cao in Beijing at [email protected]

To contact the editor responsible for this story: Bloomberg News at [email protected]"
 
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