Chinese Aviation Industry

and quote from the above video: 'The biggest problem at the beginning was: "you don't know what you don't know."'

Tirdent said:

Yes, it's not necessarily an inferior approach - I certainly didn't mean to imply that. Frankly, I'm pleasantly surprised that they're taking the leap to a composite fuselage at all.

While for a simple pressure vessel (e.g. a pressurized tank or a solid rocket motor casing) winding a single piece barrel is the best option, an airliner fuselage is more complex than that. There are lots of penetrations (doors, windows), a structural floor inside, a non-cylindrical section for the centre wing box carry-through structure and at the end of the day, the pressure differential is relatively modest. Having the opportunity to tailor skin thickness to local load-bearing requirements (rather than constant thickness all round) and integrate stiffening & mounting structures more easily saves at least some of the weight and fasteners that the panel joints entail compared to a barrel.

While the weight question is probably a dead heat, tooling cost most likely favours panels.

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The joke is that the A350 has actual less connections than the 787 because of the larger size of the CFK panels.

Right now I don't see a single argument to pick the hollow cylinder of the 787 over the Airbus concept.

danielchin said:

and quote from the above video: 'The biggest problem at the beginning was: "you don't know what you don't know."'

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Unknown unknowns!

SINGAPORE: China-Russia JV seeks widebody engine proposals
Feb 6, 2018

United Aircraft Corp.

The China-Russia International Aircraft Co. (CRAIC) consortium has requested proposals for an engine for its widebody.
Only Rolls-Royce and GE Aviation are expected to respond, since Pratt & Whitney is concentrating on engines for narrowbody aircraft.

The will have a range of 12,000km (7,500mi.) while carrying 290 passengers in two classes. It will therefore compete with the Airbus A330-900, but with a fuselage wide enough for nine-abreast economy seating and, on paper, be designed to offer operating lower costs than its competitors.

“On Dec. 21, 2017 the request for proposals for the CR929’s propulsion system was issued,” CRAIC partner COMAC says in an original Chinese-language statement released at the Singapore Air Show.

CRAIC was formed in May 2017, three years after COMAC and its Russian partner, United Aircraft Corp., agreed to preliminary cooperation. Although COMAC wanted to develop its own widebody, one that had the preliminary name C929, top political leadership of China and Russia determined the two countries should work together.

The CR929 is supposed to enter service no later than 2027.

COMAC gave no details of the propulsion requirement, but the preliminary design required 71,000lb–75,000lb from each of two turbofans.

Engine industry sources agree that the political and technical risks associated with the CR929 program argue strongly against launching development of a fully new engine for the aircraft.

Bradley Perrett/Aviation Week [email protected]

Between Russia and China they are sending out proposal for engine ?

Surely indigenous ones can be sourced

asif iqbal said:

Between Russia and China they are sending out proposal for engine ?

Surely indigenous ones can be sourced

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Neither has an engine that big that would make the C929 competitive with the 787 and A350, and waiting for an indigenously developed engine would delay the project to the point of obsoletion.

Barry Cathey, a US retiree and former Boeing production specialist, now works in Shanghai at COMAC for the ARJ21 program. He was received by the Chinese Prime Minister earlier this month. 158 experts like Barry work at COMAC today.
From Henri K blog This is an excellent idea to bring in ex Boeing expert as consultant

Hendrik_2000 said:

Barry Cathey, a US retiree and former Boeing production specialist, now works in Shanghai at COMAC for the ARJ21 program. He was received by the Chinese Prime Minister earlier this month. 158 experts like Barry work at COMAC today.
From Henri K blog This is an excellent idea to bring in ex Boeing expert as consultant

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I bet he got layed off (or forced to retire) from Boeing from their last effort to "cut cost" while the CEO and other executives get their bonuses. Good for him now that he's working for COMAC. Boeing's lost is China's gain.

Equation said:

I bet he got layed off (or forced to retire) from Boeing from their last effort to "cut cost" while the CEO and other executives get their bonuses. Good for him now that he's working for COMAC. Boeing's lost is China's gain.

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Have you never read syy books and articles on industrial spying? I would not be surprised if he was still employed by Boeing.

I bet CPC knows very well that international experts working in China and for China can also be spies. This is why so few work on military projects. Everyone knows Chinese aviation industry is behind the US. Even if the man is a spy, what's he going to report back on? OMG they are just starting to do x,y,z? Any tangible assistance at this point is mostly a credit to the overall progress of the industry.