Chinese ATGM discussion
- Thread starter Broccoli
- Start date
Well, even if HJ-12 is more expensive than older ATGMs, the PLA's budget is ever increasing and they are moving up the quality ladder in terms of equipment, so what they could afford a few years ago, what they can afford now, and what they can afford in the future to equip their soldiers may be very different.
Certainly, if past dispersal of new equipment is a trend to go by, then chances are, HJ-12 will first be deployed to more elite units and units which face a more severe threat of armour, before more gradual mass deployment.
The pictures were probably taken at Eurosatory, where Janes said pictures of the missiles were first revealed.
Skywatcher
Captain
I think HJ-12 is deserving of an eastern arsenal post
Certainly, if this weapon is equipped in meaningful numbers by the PLA, this will be a very serious threat to US and US allied armour. I think HJ-12 would be the first potentially large scale, hard counter to US armour ever deployed by a US adversary (helicopter ATGMs don't really count, given they are dependent on air superiority, and non fire and forget+non top attack missiles I do not consider reliable counters to ATGMs).
Already done as of this morning.
Would have put it out back on late June, but we didn't have any pictures until then.
It should also be mentioned, that with the introduciton of the HJ-12, the PLA will have for the first time a relatively long ranged anti-tank capability delegated to the infantry OOB, as low as company and platoon level (that is, if they emulate the US army's employment of the Javelin), a capability never seen before, replacing the too short ranged non-guided systems like the PF-98 and Type 69 RPGs usualluy found on these levels.
This is very significant. China's infantry units below battalion are often ridiculed by the chinese military watchers on chinese BBS as being extremely weak in terms of anti-armor, joking that even today they must essentially get as close to engage the enemy tanks, as their grandfathers had to do when they had to undertake suicidal charges with bangalore charges and self-made explosives+molotov cocktails. RPGs and even the PF-98s arent very long ranged, and their accuracy is also questionable.
Additionally, with the HJ-12, Chinese infantry can now accurately engage moving tanks with a high degree of reliability. This was something they couldnt even do in their dreams before.
This is very significant. China's infantry units below battalion are often ridiculed by the chinese military watchers on chinese BBS as being extremely weak in terms of anti-armor, joking that even today they must essentially get as close to engage the enemy tanks, as their grandfathers had to do when they had to undertake suicidal charges with bangalore charges and self-made explosives+molotov cocktails. RPGs and even the PF-98s arent very long ranged, and their accuracy is also questionable.
Additionally, with the HJ-12, Chinese infantry can now accurately engage moving tanks with a high degree of reliability. This was something they couldnt even do in their dreams before.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Are you forgetting all the ATGMs the PLA has been using for the last few decades? Even the ancient HJ73 provides the kind of capability you claim the PLA never had.
HJ-73, HJ-8 etc arent even battalion assets.
They are divisional/brigade artillery assets. Yes, sounds stupid, and is stupid.
PLA uses them as direct replacement of the bad old towed AT-guns from WWII era, including their Orbat organization within the tube artillery units. Not to mention that the HJ-8 is heavy as hell and couldnt be transported by a foot-mobile based maneuvering infantry unit for very long.
Which means, a PLA company or even battalion being engaged by tanks is completely helpless beyond 200m, unless the commander was so farsighted as to attach a HJ-8 ATGM platoon to that unit before the operation.
It was no joke when foreign military observers and PLA enthusiasts alike deemed the PLA's organizational structure as being completely outdated and based on ancient, obsolete systems - until now.
Where did you read that?
shen
Senior Member
uncooled seeker shouldn't limit the missile's range. Javelin's range is supposedly limited by the CLU's IR sight. the lack of definition of the IR sight prevents reliable identification at long range. the missile's IIR seeker on the other hand doesn't need much resolution in order to get a pattern lock.
MwRYum
Major
The choice of seeker on HJ-12 was said to be largely a cost-based decision, as China observed how the US used their Javelin over the years, primary to take out strong points and pillboxs and stuff, and since this has the intention to supplement the PF-98 (or the other way round, turn PF-98 served the role still played by Carl Gustav), IIR seeker head is thus too uneconomical for something to be distributed down to infantry squad or platoon-level anti-tank teams.
Also, it's been said that HJ-11 is small enough size to be distributed down to company-level...
If China start to export top-down attack ATGM, that might spark the R&D and deployment of active-kill defence system for armoured vehicles, because it's a matter of time before HJ-12 shows up in Syria via the known smuggle route, and even shows up in HAMAS or AQ-franchised arsenals, with US and Israeli forces have a new headache.
Also, it's been said that HJ-11 is small enough size to be distributed down to company-level...
If China start to export top-down attack ATGM, that might spark the R&D and deployment of active-kill defence system for armoured vehicles, because it's a matter of time before HJ-12 shows up in Syria via the known smuggle route, and even shows up in HAMAS or AQ-franchised arsenals, with US and Israeli forces have a new headache.