Chinese air to air missiles

flateric · Nov 21, 2016

Bltizo said:
are you talking about the imir seeker or the entire nose cone? because if it's just the former then that won't do much because it is still fixed in the same location on the missile's nose.

Entire nose cone. I know that similar configuration was studied and patented, while in other country and for slightly different application.

Blitzo · Nov 21, 2016

zaphd said:
Perhaps I worded that poorly the color is not an issue, but the position and layout are the things that have me wondering.

Even if you have a rolling seeker head like iirc modern HOBS IR missiles, the nose of the missile will IMO obstruct the visibility directly forward. In some approach geometries that could be problematic. As an example with first order proportional guidance, if your missile speed is mach 3.2 and your target's speed is mach.8 perpendicular to the missile approach direction, the target will be only about 15 degrees off the nose (If the back of my envelope serves me right). If the tangential velocity component of the target is smaller, the missile will need an even smaller lead. And you can't just turn the nose without turning the velocity vector of the missile.

I agree that the thing we are seeing could be some kind of cover or something that you remove before firing. But I'm still sceptical we'll see an IR aperture underneath it considering how different the setup would be from contemporary IR seekers.

Wait, just to clarify, you realize that this missile is meant to have an ImIR seeker and a radar seeker (ARH) right? That is to say, this isn't an ImIR "only" terminal guidance missile, but rather a composite ImIR + ARH terminal guidance missile?

With that in mind, considering that this is meant to be a high speed AAM, and given the physical constraints of how big an AAM can practically be, I think the positioning of the suspected ImIR seeker on this missile makes complete sense, because at that location it will give it some forward view while giving most of the nosecone's real estate in the forward direction for the ARH seeker. The forward field of view for the ImIR seeker obviously will not be as good as if it were located on the nose of the missile like IR guided SRAAMs, but I imagine it would serve the purpose well enough for composite guidance purposes in conjunction with the ARH seeker.

This configuration of the seeker is of course quite unique, but then again this entire missile is also quite unique.

Blitzo · Nov 21, 2016

flateric said:
Entire nose cone. I know that similar configuration was studied and patented, while in other country and for slightly different application.

I see. If that is the case then that is definitely a potential solution as well.

zaphd · Nov 21, 2016

Bltizo said:
Wait, just to clarify, you realize that this missile is meant to have an ImIR seeker and a radar seeker (ARH) right? That is to say, this isn't an ImIR "only" terminal guidance missile, but rather a composite ImIR + ARH terminal guidance missile?

Yes, but if possible you would want both guidance modes in the endgame for eccm. Towed RF decoys, anyone?

Blitzo · Nov 21, 2016

zaphd said:
Yes, but if possible you would want both guidance modes in the endgame for eccm. Towed RF decoys, anyone?

Both guidance modes would be used for the end part of the terminal phase, it is described in the study.

There's nothing with the design of the missile's two seeker positions that would inherently prevent it from using both seekers in the last part of terminal phase. Both would still have forward field of view on the "edge" of their seeker positions.

Skywatcher · Nov 21, 2016

Franklin said:
Wasn't there a longer range AAM in the works in China the PL-21 ramjet powered missile. This could be the PL-21. The PL-15 we know may well be an much improved PL-12. Its range is no better than the AIM-120D ie 100km +.

Well, the PL-XX/VLRAAM would have the benefit of high speed (the R-37 has a top speed of Mach 6) to deal with relatively unmanuverable targets like tankers and AEWC aircraft, while the ramjet PL-21 could have a larger no escape zone against most supersonic fighter targets due it likely having a longer portion of its flight time as being powered.

huitong · Nov 22, 2016

I will maintain the old PL-15 entry but call it PL-12G.

Deino · Nov 22, 2016

Just another detail I noticed in regard to this secret missile:

The pylon to which this missile is adapted is - or at least looks very much like - an AKU-58 launch rail, which is commonly used only for AGMs like the Ch-29, Ch-31, Ch-58 ... but never before with a AAM.

Could this be a hint for its intented role??

Deino

kriss · Nov 22, 2016

Deino said:
Just another detail I noticed in regard to this secret missile:

The pylon to which this missile is adapted is - or at least looks very much like - an APU-58 launch rail, which is commonly used only for AGMs like the Ch-29, Ch-31, Ch-58 ... but never before with a AAM.

Could this be a hint for its intented role??

Deino

Maybe because this missile is heavier than any other AAM.

Blitzo · Nov 22, 2016

Deino said:
Just another detail I noticed in regard to this secret missile:

The pylon to which this missile is adapted is - or at least looks very much like - an APU-58 launch rail, which is commonly used only for AGMs like the Ch-29, Ch-31, Ch-58 ... but never before with a AAM.

Could this be a hint for its intented role??

Deino

more related to weight, I think.

I don't think launch rails dictate the kinds of weapons that can be employed by them anyway, in terms of a2a, a2g etc.

Chinese air to air missiles

flateric

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