I was wandering the same. And if that's true, it can support the thesis the J-20 is more an attack plane than a "pure" fighter.
In the other hand, as an stealth, it can fire closer making the longer range missile less important than in a greater RCS aircraft.
Does this imply that a flanker variant (J-11D/J-16/J-15) will fulfill the AWAC killer role instead of the J-20?
Is there any other case of a chinese ir seeker similar to the brown patch on this new missile? Because it looks nothing like the PL-8/9/10 seeker images i have seen. Also, it looks very different from the SDB2 imIR/MMW seeker, which is somewhat similar to short range ir missile seekers in external appearance (granted, the SDB2 has a completely different flight envelope than an AAM).edit: also, a simple picture of what I think some of the key features of the missile are based on picture
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Hi Blitzo, thank you for your detailed analysis. Overall I agree with you that there are two types of missiles: a medium-range AAM carried externally by J-11B and internally by J-20, and this large long-range AAM carried by J-16. The confusion started when both were labeled as PL-15 on the internet. The reason I called the first one a PL-12 variant is because in the past several big shrimps on the Chinese web sites already pointed out the missiles inside the J-20 weapon bay were not PL-15, but a PL-12 variant. However they did not describe what PL-15 really was. That's understandable because at that time no photos of any new type of AAM were available, until yesterday. So, there was an empty slot reserved for PL-15. We needed to fit it with something and now we do have something. Is this big fat sexy baby the real PL-15? Honestly I don't know. I call it PL-15 just for the convenience. Consequently on my web site I will move the old PL-15 entry and combine it with the PL-12 entry. The new AAM will occupy the PL-15 entry, for now, until more details come out to prove it otherwise. The update might take a few more days for the text to settle down. Thanks again for your input!
Is there any other case of a chinese ir seeker similar to the brown patch on this new missile? Because it looks nothing like the PL-8/9/10 seeker images i have seen. Also, it looks very different from the SDB2 imIR/MMW seeker, which is somewhat similar to short range ir missile seekers in external appearance (granted, the SDB2 has a completely different flight envelope than an AAM).
Another issue I have with this interpretation is that would this IR seeker on the side of the nose be able to see forward enough? Hopefully this thing pops up in zhuhai 2018, better close up photos would answer many questions.
...or it can roll just seeker head...
Perhaps I worded that poorly the color is not an issue, but the position and layout are the things that have me wondering.It is the location and the configuration of the suspected seeker whcih is important, not the colour, because the colour in question is only the glass covering over the seeker itself
For all we know the colour of the cover on the pictures we see might be for the missiles being dummies, who knows. We don't know of those missiles are real missiles or not, or maybe there is a cover over the seeker.
But to answer your question directly, this sort of dark brown/gold colour of the suspected ImIR seeker I think is a viable colour for the window. Especially considering the colour of many other windows covering other imaging sensors have a similar colour, like the EOTS of F-35 and EOIRST of J-20 not to mention a number of IRST systems for fighter aircraft.
So the colour of the seeker aperture itself I think it not very much of a factor when considering whether that feature is an ImIR seeker or not. Far more important is the location and geometry of it, as well as the study from 2013 explicitly saying that the missile they were investigating would have a composite ImIR+radar seeker.
Depends on how wide the angle of the seeker is. I think that that sort of location for an ImIR seeker is the only location that really makes sense if one wants to develop a high speed AAM while also having a radar seeker in the nose as well.
Also remember the missile itself can roll during flight to allow both seekers to gain a better view, and also important is that the missile's seekers will only operate during the terminal stage where it should be coming down onto its target from quite high above
just to add, this 15 degree lead would be with assuming the missile is flying straight with 0 angle of attack towards the target. Reality is ofc somewhat, but not totally different, since generally targets will be in the forward sector of the missile.Even if you have a rolling seeker head like iirc modern HOBS IR missiles, the nose of the missile will IMO obstruct the visibility directly forward. In some approach geometries that could be problematic. As an example with first order proportional guidance, if your missile speed is mach 3.2 and your target's speed is mach.8 perpendicular to the missile approach direction, the target will be only about 15 degrees off the nose (If the back of my envelope serves me right). If the tangential velocity component of the target is smaller, the missile will need an even smaller lead. And you can't just turn the nose without turning the velocity vector of the missile.