Chinese AESA development

SinoSoldier · Jan 18, 2011

Maggern said:
So, what you're saying is that China has had stealth planes flying around for over a year? And that SAC has pretty much been doing like two-three stealth programs simultaneously, while Chengdu barely could do one?

I wish to adopt blitzo's sceptical view here. If we can only somewhat confirm AESA on J-10B (from rumors+features of airframe and the technological level), a fighter we have lots of pictures of and that we KNOW is flying around there, how is it even useful to be 100% sure of AESA on projects that themselves are only rumors so far? Plans are plans, but you can plan anything. Circumstances change. I don't deny these planes will fly soon and that they have AESA. But I just think it's waaaaay premature to take these facts as given as of now. I'm completely willing to throw this stance away as soon as we have credible pics, reports and analysis available.

No, that's not what I meant. I never said that the J-16 and the SAC fighter-bomber have been flight tested. In fact, they're in development. The prototypes of the J-16 and fighter-bomber are probably in construction at this stage (the deadline was reported to be mi-2011). In total, SAC has TWO stealthy programs running. Huitong also reports it.

Xian has the JH-7B. There has been much debate over its first flight date. Dates range from June 2009 to December 2010. But what we know that it is definitely under late development and possibly flight testing. Huitong reported it, if that's what you're looking for.

If you are waiting for pictures, check back in 5 years.

Semi-Lobster · Jan 19, 2011

All this talk of the JH-7B makes me wonder why they just call it something else, like the JH-8 or something? Is the design really THAT much of a mere derivative from the original JH-7 to not constitute something new? From what I understand about the design, it looks rather substantial...

Blitzo · Jan 19, 2011

SinoSoldier said:
The J-16 and JH-7B are both widely reported in Chinese media. There are even photos of a small mockup of the JH-7B (as well as the computer screen design) and also SAC-leaked designs of the J-16. If there are plans (it is widely reported that there is), then it's real. There's no gray area in between.

May I ask which SAC designs of J-16 there are? I'm aware of some wind tunnel pictures of some SAC proposals for the J-XX project but none which correlate with the idea that J-16 is a "silent flanker".

For your information, "credibility" doesn't exist in the PLA. The J-10B still "doesn't exist" according to the PLAAF. The guy who told about the SAC stealth fighter-bomber is the same guy who told the description of the J-20 one year ago, and the description matches exactly what the J-20 is today. He apparently has insider connections.

Sure credibility doesn't exist inside the PLA, because they don't say anything -- but we can make decisions about how credible a project sounds to be.
And which guy are you talking about?

How bout this, the projects I mentioned are mentioned by Huitong. Credible enough?

Sure, that means the project may or may have existed. Huitong also says there's a B-2 like bomber and a Y-8 gunship under development -- but barely anyone consider those as real.

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My Chinese isn't very up to scratch -- can anyone take a look at these links and their credibility?
Just because a website writes something doesn't mean it's true. The fact that few to no people have picked up on JH-7B and J-16 extensively makes me question their existence.

For the record, I think the J-16 probably exists but there is not enough out there about the JH-7B yet -- either way it's ridiculous to list these two planes in any debate, due to the lack of credible evidence.

Huitong reprots it, too

I've seen that picture too, and I think I know of the computer pictures of the so called JH-7B you refer to. The past has shown us to not disregard models -- but that hardly confirms its existence and should not be considered real or confirmed (yes I know the PLA doesn't confirm its projects -- but JH-7B and J-16 are not confirmed like the J-20 or J-10B are)

Yeah, J-10A pictures were almost never known until many years after the first flight. Even after the first photos were released, they were regarded as photoshops

But photos still came out before PLA officially declassified the J-10 project. We saw J-15 photos a few months it first flew, J-20 photos before it even flew. Photos of the JH-7B -- if it exists and that it's flown -- should be well out by now.

JH-7B, J-16, and the SAC fighter-bomber are all widely reported. But remember, the PLAAF doesn't "confirm" something until years after its first completion. Sure, nothing can be "confirmed" if that's what you're looking for. Not even the J-10B.

"Confirmed" means to have consistent reports/rumors from credible sources and/or photos. Of course I know the PLA doesn't confirm anything.
I was a staunch believer of the J-XX years before it came out, and I considered it a confirmed project because there were consistent reports from credible sources and was considered real by other credible posters -- tphuang's blog is a good guide. There's been barely that kind of awareness of JH-7B and J-16.
But if and when we see pictures I'll be the first to admit their existence -- for now it's still ridiculous to list them as examples in definite certainty.

The real speculation lies in the actual performance of the Type 1475 KLJ-5 AESA radar.

If that's the J-20's radar's designation at all. I wonder if they'll retrofit current and future flankers with the J-20s aesa or design a new one like the SABR aesa retrofit for F-16s.

Blitzo · Jan 19, 2011

Semi-Lobster said:
All this talk of the JH-7B makes me wonder why they just call it something else, like the JH-8 or something? Is the design really THAT much of a mere derivative from the original JH-7 to not constitute something new? From what I understand about the design, it looks rather substantial...

Maybe it's similar to the FA-18C/D vs FA-18E/F idea -- call it a "variant" to get funding but in reality it's practically a new aircraft. If JH-7B's real

rhino123 · Jan 19, 2011

SinoSoldier said:
J-11B and J-15 are planned, yes, but plans are still plans. I doubt that it'll be long from now.

J-16 and JH-7B both have concept photos released many years ago. Reliable sources state that the J-16 will fly in 2011 while JH-7B flew a year back. Both are stealth aircraft, and reports say AESA will be used. In fact, quite detailed information about the two aircraft were present in reports.

First off. J-16 and JH-7B have released concept photos, and then nothing else. As to all your reports, care to share the sources?

J-20's prototype only flew recently, and to date it is the only stealth design we are seeing so far... Suddenly we are about to see J-16 and JH-7B which are stealth planes... this make me wonder how accurate it was.

Plus I never say official confirmation. I say near official confirmation. Sometime you do not need a official from the PLA or China's government to say something to make things official. Medias such as Xinhua, Phoenix, etc provide quite accurate information too. Plus many other sources.

But right now you keep saying reports, I pose this question, what reports?

rhino123 · Jan 19, 2011

Bltizo said:
My Chinese isn't very up to scratch -- can anyone take a look at these links and their credibility?
Just because a website writes something doesn't mean it's true. The fact that few to no people have picked up on JH-7B and J-16 extensively makes me question their existence.

Read only two of the 'sources' briefly... and I would have to say... sadly... I don't believe those source to be too accurate. One of them stated that, "according to reliable sources" but conveniently left out the sources. Another's source was abit over enthusiastic... stating that the JH-7B made use of a new engine that had 50% more power (I think) than the old one. As far as I know, so far, China is only working with WS-10A, WS-13 and maybe an uprated WS-10 engines, so what engine is this 'new' fighter bomber using?

And one of them had stated that the new JH-7B had test fly successfully, plus the article was in 2009, something really suspicious.

Frankly I don't trust any of these sources.

Centrist · Jan 19, 2011

I wouldn't doubt that the JH-7B was an idea floated around in the PLAAF, but I think that chances are it will never exist. China has the J-11BS to fill that role now. The JH-7B would be redundant.

Besides, the name JH-7B implies an upgrade up the JH-7 platform...which is stupid if you ask me. You cannot upgrade an old airframe beyond a certain point.

A J-16 or SU-35/Stealthy Flanker by SAC seems to make sense to me. There is a market for competent 4.5 Gen fighters. SAC may be working on it as an export aircraft, I don't know that it is likely that the J-20 would be exported.

SinoSoldier · Jan 19, 2011

Bltizo said:
May I ask which SAC designs of J-16 there are? I'm aware of some wind tunnel pictures of some SAC proposals for the J-XX project but none which correlate with the idea that J-16 is a "silent flanker".

Here is a smaller resolution of the design (Huitong deleted it recently for some reason):

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Sources say it`s developed from the J-11B, but with major stealth reductions, internal weapons bay, stealthy intakes, new avionics, and slanted vertical stabilizers

Bltizo said:
Sure credibility doesn't exist inside the PLA, because they don't say anything -- but we can make decisions about how credible a project sounds to be.
And which guy are you talking about?

The guy`s friend is on this forum. His username is 70092.

Bltizo said:
Sure, that means the project may or may have existed. Huitong also says there's a B-2 like bomber and a Y-8 gunship under development -- but barely anyone consider those as real.

Any project that is underway is real. Just because you don`t know much about it doesn`t mean it doesn`t exist. For example, even though no one knew about the J-20 project five years ago, it was still real. Since the SAC fighter-bomber and J-16 are all slated for first flight in mid-2011, we can expect that a prototype for each aircraft is well underway.

Bltizo said:
My Chinese isn't very up to scratch -- can anyone take a look at these links and their credibility?
Just because a website writes something doesn't mean it's true. The fact that few to no people have picked up on JH-7B and J-16 extensively makes me question their existence.

For the record, I think the J-16 probably exists but there is not enough out there about the JH-7B yet -- either way it's ridiculous to list these two planes in any debate, due to the lack of credible evidence.

A LOT of people have picked up the JH-7B and J-16. JH-7B reports all all over Chinese internet, and some Western sites as well. As for the J-16, consider this: I saw a French website having an article on the J-16.

Bltizo said:
I've seen that picture too, and I think I know of the computer pictures of the so called JH-7B you refer to. The past has shown us to not disregard models -- but that hardly confirms its existence and should not be considered real or confirmed (yes I know the PLA doesn't confirm its projects -- but JH-7B and J-16 are not confirmed like the J-20 or J-10B are)

That`s the design right there. It`s existence can be partially confirmed because there`s also a computer screenshot of the front cockpit being designed. After all, reports are saying that the JH-7B is China`s first fully-digitally-designed combat aircraft.

JH-7B, Sac fighter-bomber, and J-16 are not so-called `confirmed` for your standards because the flight tests have not been completed yet. No one thought J-20 was confirmed until taxi tests started.

Bltizo said:
But photos still came out before PLA officially declassified the J-10 project. We saw J-15 photos a few months it first flew, J-20 photos before it even flew. Photos of the JH-7B -- if it exists and that it's flown -- should be well out by now.

The so-called `photos`were treated the same way as the photos I posted. People simply denounced them as photoshops or some early concept models. Pictures of the J-10A were also extremely rare then.

Bltizo said:
"Confirmed" means to have consistent reports/rumors from credible sources and/or photos. Of course I know the PLA doesn't confirm anything.
I was a staunch believer of the J-XX years before it came out, and I considered it a confirmed project because there were consistent reports from credible sources and was considered real by other credible posters -- tphuang's blog is a good guide. There's been barely that kind of awareness of JH-7B and J-16.
But if and when we see pictures I'll be the first to admit their existence -- for now it's still ridiculous to list them as examples in definite certainty.

The SAC fighter-bomber, J-16, and JH-7B share all of the traits you described above. There are hundreds of reports of JH-7B on Chinese internet and western sites. The J-16 is spreading like wildfire here in Western media. And I already posted some development photos of the JH-7B and J-16.

In fact, there are more JH-7B articles on Chinese Internet than J-20 articles.

SinoSoldier · Jan 19, 2011

Centrist said:
I wouldn't doubt that the JH-7B was an idea floated around in the PLAAF, but I think that chances are it will never exist. China has the J-11BS to fill that role now. The JH-7B would be redundant.

Besides, the name JH-7B implies an upgrade up the JH-7 platform...which is stupid if you ask me. You cannot upgrade an old airframe beyond a certain point.

A J-16 or SU-35/Stealthy Flanker by SAC seems to make sense to me. There is a market for competent 4.5 Gen fighters. SAC may be working on it as an export aircraft, I don't know that it is likely that the J-20 would be exported.

The JH-7B will incorporate DSI intakes, internal weapons bay, RAM, AESA, etc. The J-11BS is incomparable to such an aircraft.

Reports say the JH-7B takes elements from the JH-7A, but according to the main JH-7B designer, Tang, the JH-7B is pretty much new design. That`s why some articles name it the JH-8 instead.

J-16 is not based on Su-35. It will compete with the F-15SE Silent Eagle and possibly the T-50.

rhino123 · Jan 19, 2011

SinoSoldier said:
Here is a smaller resolution of the design (Huitong deleted it recently for some reason):
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Sources say it`s developed from the J-11B, but with major stealth reductions, internal weapons bay, stealthy intakes, new avionics, and slanted vertical stabilizers

The guy`s friend is on this forum. His username is 70092.

Any project that is underway is real. Just because you don`t know much about it doesn`t mean it doesn`t exist. For example, even though no one knew about the J-20 project five years ago, it was still real. Since the SAC fighter-bomber and J-16 are all slated for first flight in mid-2011, we can expect that a prototype for each aircraft is well underway.

A LOT of people have picked up the JH-7B and J-16. JH-7B reports all all over Chinese internet, and some Western sites as well. As for the J-16, consider this: I saw a French website having an article on the J-16.

That`s the design right there. It`s existence can be partially confirmed because there`s also a computer screenshot of the front cockpit being designed. After all, reports are saying that the JH-7B is China`s first fully-digitally-designed combat aircraft.

JH-7B, Sac fighter-bomber, and J-16 are not so-called `confirmed` for your standards because the flight tests have not been completed yet. No one thought J-20 was confirmed until taxi tests started.

The so-called `photos`were treated the same way as the photos I posted. People simply denounced them as photoshops or some early concept models. Pictures of the J-10A were also extremely rare then.

The SAC fighter-bomber, J-16, and JH-7B share all of the traits you described above. There are hundreds of reports of JH-7B on Chinese internet and western sites. The J-16 is spreading like wildfire here in Western media. And I already posted some development photos of the JH-7B and J-16.

In fact, there are more JH-7B articles on Chinese Internet than J-20 articles.

To make thing simple then. Since the J-16 and the SAC fighter bomber (as you claim) are slotted for first flight somewhere in June and July (mid of this year), we will have to wait till then to see if it is true or simply another unreliable internet claims.

At the mean time, let as get back to topic.

Chinese AESA development

SinoSoldier

Colonel

Semi-Lobster

Junior Member

Blitzo

Lieutenant General

Blitzo

Lieutenant General

rhino123

Pencil Pusher

rhino123

Pencil Pusher

Centrist

Junior Member

SinoSoldier

Colonel

SinoSoldier

Colonel

rhino123

Pencil Pusher